…that’s not how that works.
Early stages of development are bipotential, which means they could develop either way, they’re not initially female.
Around 6-7 weeks, if carrying a Y chromosome carrying the gene SRY, they develop into testes. If there are two X chromosomes, then ovaries develop.
The fem-cel community has already accepted me even though I’m a cis straight white guy who’s asexual (so voluntarily celibate) but I’m happy I can now finally check one box and accept myself as a femcel.
y hallo my new fellow laydees
“All female employees must pose nude if requested”
Yipeeee :3
(Sucks for my ftm homies tho)
Trump increases the wage gap rather unconventionally.
What a roundabout way to get unisex bathrooms.
Congratulations to women, your public bathrooms will be less crowded. To my trans brothers and sisters, see you at the sink!
I was under the impression that the sperm that fertilizes the egg carries either an X chromosome or Y chromosome and that’s what determines male or female. So that would mean conception is in fact when this gets decided, no? What am I missing here?
Sex isn’t directly determined by chromosomes, it is determined by someone taking a look at the sex organs. This works for most people, but embryonic development is like most things complicated and there are a lot of factors that make it more difficult than “male” and “female”. Examples are people with more than 2 chromosomes or that have absorbed a sibling in the womb. Difference of sex development is estimated to affect 1/100 people.
So when the doc takes a look just before 6 weeks, she must declare “the embryo has ovaries and no testes - female” at every single person. At literal conception: “Idk know, man, it is just 1 cell”.
Sex isn’t directly determined by chromosomes, it is determined by someone taking a look at the sex organs.
I mean that’s how it’s usually observed, but not how it’s determined. Those sex organs get there somehow. The general rule is that if you have a heightened level of androgens and nothing preventing you from responding to them at a certain point in fetal development then you develop male sex organs, if not you develop female sex organs. Barring some other medical disorder, those heightened androgens that masculinize the fetus are triggered by the action of the SRY gene on a Y chromosome.
Difference of sex development is estimated to affect 1/100 people.
If you include absolutely everything, yeah. But someone with Klinefelter’s is in terms of sexual function male (if less fertile), someone with XXX is in the same way female, XX people with CAIS are in the same way female, etc. Cases where there’s ambiguity in sexual function are much more rare.
But really all this is like making the argument that gloves shouldn’t come in pairs with five fingers per glove because rarely people are born with syndactyly, polydactyly, etc. Like the definition Trump uses is stupid and wrong (not least because no one is producing gametes at conception) and it’s at least even odds it makes him non-male since at his age he’s probably shooting blanks, but to pretend that sex in humans doesn’t come in two categories and an assortment of rare conditions in which something went wrong genetically or developmentally is kinda silly.
Your Gloves comparison is pretty flawed, though.
We don’t require everyone to wear a pair of gloves at all times. We don’t put glove data on legal forms, we don’t use gloves to classify a critical element of our sense of self. We don’t make changing your glove type illegal, costly, or incredibly difficult. We don’t make getting 4 or 6 finger gloves illegal. We don’t force people with 6 fingers to get one chopped off. We don’t exclude people who are missing a hand entirely from society. We don’t publicly demonize people with 4 fingers.
Yes, the proportion of people impacted is small, but the impact to those people is not. We can’t just call it “Good enough” because it works for 99% of the population when the 1% it definitely doesn’t work for is being absolutely ruined by it, especially if the exceptions that serve that small population are being systematically eliminated so that their existence is either suffering or criminality.
Also, imagine how awkward it is to be the determining doc in that situation.
This was the only possibility for the Incel Movement to ever get touched by a
womenfemale. Congrats to them.Trump abolished gender reveal parties, which is kinda positive honestly
Less ecological damage for sure. No more random air cannons of confetti or balloon launches.
I didn’t consider this option, but it seems to be an easy fix to the whole gender thing. Everyone is female. period. *(no pun intended)
Own that period joke. You conceived it, whether accidental or not, so you should carry it to term.
so you should carry it to term.
Are required to carry it to term. Aborting the pun is a crime.
chefs kiss
There sure are a lot more lesbians than there used to be.
Turns out they were always asking, “What is a woman?” because they had no idea either.
It’s a bad faith question that deserves a hillarious answer
“What is a woman? Why it’s someone whom, family members aside, you’ve never seen naked.”
“What is a woman? The kind of people at the bar who cover their drinks when you get too close.”
“What is a woman? A MISERABLE LITTLE PILE OF SECRETS!”
“What is a woman? Well these curvy people who smell nice and go by she/her pronouns and sometimes they have big meaty penises to suck, but only if you’re lucky.”
That’s always what I figured, that they’d fumble if you turned the question around and asked them to define woman or man. Buncha chumps.
E: le spelling
Nah, they have no issue with a tautological definition. “A woman is a female human that’s born a girl” makes perfect sense to anyone that’s asking anyone else to define what a woman is.
They had months to draft the definition in the executive order. Perhaps more than a year if it was started internally by Project 2025. They still fucked it up.
Hello ladies
Hey guuuurrrll!
I guess we can completely get rid of Hey Guys now.
And people said I’d never meet a nice woman…
Technically no. They aren’t male or female, they’re undifferentiated. Since we’re neither male nor female at conception, this order means males and females don’t actually exist at all.
Get out of here with that big science speak that isn’t allowed in American now
he talked science! Get 'im!
At conception the future sex is determined by the chromosomes that the sperm contributes. Once fertilized, there are either X and X or X and Y, which will be XX and XY once meiosis occurs for the first time.
So technically once fertilization occurs(conception), sex has been determined.
The correct explanation on which the gender depends.
No, it isn’t. Every Bio textbook I have that discusses it (more than a dozen), is very clear that sex is determined by gonad function/gamete production. Some XY individuals will never produce sperm. Some will produce ova. Some XX individuals will never produce ova. I would bet there is probably at least one case out there where an XX individual produced sperm through some kind of insanely unlikely nondisjunction. And none of this even begins to touch on the variability within the XXY and XO groups. Even if you want to not consider other species, chromosomes ain’t it.
They don’t seem to understand that even if XX/XY differentiation is right 99.99% of the time, there are a fuck ton of humans in the world and even small improbabilities are likely to be represented. We obviously shouldn’t make laws that discriminate against minorities, and these people really exist all over the place.
Republicans want to erase the idea of nonbinary people because their tiny minds can’t handle the scientific nuance.
Yup. A huge amount of people grow up to adulthood not knowing they’re intersex until they get tested. Talking percentages ain’t shit when your population is an entire dominant species!
.01% of the US population is over 33k. That’s the population of a mid-sized county in a red state.
You don’t define the norm with characteristics of edge cases. The X and Y chromosome groups define biological sex be it male, female, or intersex.
Some people are born with vestigial tails, does that mean that humans may or may not have tails? No, a few hundred people have been born with a vestigial tail in recorded history.
Some people are born with a cleft pallette, does that mean humans can be born with or without a cleft pallette? No, 1 in 1,600 people are born with a cleft pallette.
1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 people are born intersex. The other 1499 to 1999 people are XY or XX and 98.5% of those have a gender identity that conforms with their biological sex.
You are daft if you take an XX that identifies as a woman and say she isn’t female because her ovaries don’t produce an ovum. That woman is a sterile female, not intersex.
Hormones are the thing that defines development, more or less. There’s lots of things that effect hormones, and everyone has verying degrees of testosterone and estrogen, and other hormones. Chromosomes are associated with hormones, but do not totally define what hormones are in the body when and where. That’s even ignoring the fact we can control what hormones are in the body now manually, which directly changes how the body develops.
The issue is that you claim that a causes b. So at a, we can know that b will follow. Therefore we can identify b when we see a.
They say, a don’t cause b for certain. So at a, we can’t know that b will follow. Therefore we can’t identify b when we see a, as we could misidentify.
That is not defining the norm at all. That is pointing out that it is logically invalid to identify b at a.
Think about it like this, most people who are born will be 23yo at some point but not all. So while it is a fair assumption to assume that a child will be 23yo, it would be wrong to claim that it will be 23yo. So when the child is born, there is no way to determine whether or not a child will be 23yo. it probably will but it might not. The norm is still that the child will be 23yo, but that doesn’t change the reality that some won’t.
You don’t define the norm with characteristics of edge cases.
Exactly. So what are you made of, hydrogen or helium?
haha thats gold
I’m helium. 3/4 of you wish you could be me.
You don’t define the norm with characteristics of edge cases
Good thing I didn’t do that.
The X and Y chromosome groups define biological sex
This is the whole point, no, they don’t. Biologists do not define sex in terms of chromosomes because there are multiple different chromosomal systems in use to achieve the function of sex cell differentiation.
Some people are born with vestigial tails, does that mean that humans may or may not have tails? No, a few hundred people have been born with a vestigial tail in recorded history.
Some people are born with a cleft pallette, does that mean humans can be born with or without a cleft pallette? No, 1 in 1,600 people are born with a cleft pallette.
I just…fucking wow. Reread what you wrote here.
Clearly people born with a cleft pallette aren’t human to them. Which is kind of a weird thing to say and believe.
If you ever get the chance, I recommend the book A Cabinet of Medical Curiosities: A Compendium of the Odd, the Bizarre, and the Unexpected by Jan Bondeson.
The book talks at length about medical conditions, including the human tail, the cleft pallet and also intersex. It talks about XY females, SRY transposition/deletions, the Guevedoche males from Dominican Republic who are indistinguishable from females until about the age of 12 when their testes drop, and the prevalence of more subtle forms of intersex that go under-diagnosed. It also touches in fetal development and general genetics including the inversion of sexual chromosomes in birds and reptiles.
It’s a great dive into the complexity of biology and particularly sexual development. I suspect you won’t be so sure of what you think is normal after exploring its barrage of edge cases that deeply contemplate the nature of genetic sex that creates these deviations: Nothing in biology is set and it’s all subject to change.
98.5% of those have a gender identity that conforms with their biological sex.
There are many more people today who have incorporated a hybrid gender precisely because they don’t fit into neat categories. People call them femboys and tomboys because everything about their gender expression is mixed. You can’t tell me with a straight face they’re just pretending. The whole category is called “gender non-conforming”.
Some people being born with a vestigial tail and most being born without, does mean people are born with or without a vestigial tail. I don’t know how to respond to this, what part aren’t you understanding exactly?
what part aren’t you understanding exactly?
I’m guessing it’s the parts about biological sex and humans. They’re clearly not very familiar with either.
Only correct comment here. Genetically, all things are already set in stone at conception. People parroting the 6 week thing are conflating genetic determinism with development of external traits.
There’s also the issue with intersexed individuals and other individuals with chromosomal differences… I suspect they are out of scope of the order as they really don’t fit either definition
According to the wording of the order, at conception you are female if you are “producing larger reproductive cells” or male if you are “producing smaller reproductive cells”. Since at conception no one is making either reproductive cells, then I agree with the stance that the order says no one is male or female now.
We’re all non-binary
I think everyone involved with the orders are a bunch of jackasses, but that simply isn’t what it says. It doesn’t speculate at all about the timing of the production of the reproductive cells, merely that the individual belongs to a a sex that does produce them. It’s a fun joke, but going to the mat defending it just makes it look like you don’t read well.
Except that interpretation ends up being circular in a way. They don’t have the characteristic, but one day they will belong to a sex that is associated with producing them, even if they personally never do. The wording is very weird because they think they are sidestepping chromosomal and hormonal anomalies, but end up in either taking them literally at their word (no one is any gender) or applying some looser interpretation that becomes flexible since “belonging to a sex” is then not tethered to any objective fact since the timeframe is then up for grabs.
For example, they could have said “if the sperm contributed a y chromosome, then male, else female”. But they probably were thinking of things like Morris, Kleinfelter, and Swyer and wanted to have wording flexible enough to account for those. But it results in enough ambiguity to allow for things.
So first and foremost, I am not defending these idiots at all, just looking at what they have actually written. I don’t believe that they are behaving sanely, let alone reasonably.
It’s not circular, but is in a practical sense retrograde, since it involves making a determination at birth based on criteria that cannot be accurately assessed until some point in the future. Therefore, obviously, the way the sex is actually determined at birth isn’t going to align 100% with the definitions they’ve outlined here and is going to cause some massive problems for subset of humans who don’t deserve any of this. As a result, they’re not sidestepping issues with chromosomal variability so much as walking head first into them, like a steel post.
I completely disagree that this definition is “not tethered to any objective fact”, because whether or not you produce sperm/ovum at some point over your lifespan definitely reflects an underlying reality and is how sex is determined the rest of the time when we aren’t talking about humans and social issues.
It doesn’t speculate at all about the timing of the production of the reproductive cells, merely that the individual belongs to a a sex that does produce them
It literally specifies “at the time of conception”. At which point nobody has developed any sexual characteristics.
Competent lawmakers write bills and executive orders VERY carefully in order to cause the least confusion and unintended conclusions possible.
Trump has once again proven to be the polar opposite of competence.
At conception the future sex is determined by the chromosomes that the sperm contributes.
Explain that to XY individuals with a mutated SRY, meaning they never develop male traits at all, even though they’re XY.
Trump declares
himselfherself the first female President of the USA? 😳(Edit: Excuse me Mrs. President, I had misgendered you.)
He’s so petty he had to steal that title from both Hilary and Kamala it just took him this long…
*She, her
For trump it’s actually
*Stinky, stinksTrump has the chosen pronouns of He/Him, don’t be a Nazi bigot and tell someone what their pronouns are.
Has he declared his pronouns anywhere or have we all just rudely assumed them and he’s been too shy/nervous to correct us?
Trump not correcting someone to his reality? Have you only just been rescued from an uncharted island that you have been marooned on since before 2016?
Like that kayaking camping group that came back late March 2020 and had knowledge of COVID suddenly thrust upon them? That sounds lovely.
I will fucking eat my shirt if someone from the media addresses every male person in the Trump administration as “Madam” or “Ms.”
Seems like something all the late night comedy hosts should start doing at a bare minimum.
First Woman President and first Lesbian President 🎉😅
Lesbian too! So brave 🥹
She can’t keep getting away with it!
So when he said “grab them by the pussy” he was just talking about having a wank?
