Stop living in the American ethos bubble by only comparing her and others to the politicians within our borders. Relative to what the world considers Left and Right to be, she and Biden are Right wing.
She was a world leader. She must be measured as such.
Edit: I don’t think the message warranted moderation and removal.
So we should judge her by European standards which you are calling “the world’s standard”? The left= anti-capitalist is very much a European perspective.
Let’s not continue to mistake Europe and European views for “The World” because that is historically problematic. Much of the world is still trying to figure out what rights people have from/by their governments.
No, you mushroom. I stated the parameters. You’re just too myopic to see beyond your own nose. Kamala is right of center, even in the USA. She’s not “left wing.” She’s left of Trump. I don’t see a single reference to Europe in my first comment.
Understand that your American definition of left and right is not based at all on actual, factual analysis of of political theory and based entirely on American propaganda. There are base definitions for these things, even if Americans seem to think that “the Overton window” is relevant in intelligent discussion around the world with these things. Even if it was it wouldn’t shift the actual definition of these words, but your perceptions by proxy.
I am referring to the actual definitions of these terms.
At a certain point it’s not even worth arguing with these people. They’ve been sold propaganda by American liberals and conservatives for so long that they cannot get it out of their head. They bought it hook line and sinker. They’ve been sitting there while the Overton Windows being shifted and they’ve been going along with it happily.
Yeah man, like I seriously don’t get it. These aren’t difficult concepts, but American liberals are just incapable of understanding that A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL BE HARDLINE ABOUT GENOCIDE. Convince your politicians that it’s not okay to do genocide. I GUARANTEE YOU it’s easier than convincing me that genocide is okay.
I understand that all of your claims are Euro-centric and that’s a problem.
There are definitions of right and left and they are relative to the society in question. Anyone trying to force a universal definition will quickly fond their definitions wanting.
For the USA Harris is center left. In KSA Harris would be extreme far left for suggesting that there should be rights for women and no king. These definitions are relative.
I’m not European. American problems directly affect my country. And these right wing/left wing discussions mean something. Someone cannot claim to be left wing or have my sympathies when they’re just claiming to be left wing while being oppose to me on every issue I care about. I know it’s hard for liberals to understand this, although I have no clue why.
The fact you aren’t European is immaterial as your claim is Euro-centric. Anti-capitalism = left is not universal to all nations. In DPRK suggesting there not be a hereditary dictatorship but rather a parliamentary system would be insanely far left yet that’s standard for most nations.
Not all nations are in the same place for development and it is a colossal mistake to label what is true for Europe as being true for all given the history of evil rooted in Eurocentric perspectives.
By the world’s standards, you potato. By comparing her to others in this country, you corndog-stick. By simply looking at her positions, you meatloaf stain. By whom she supports, you pickle wart.
There is no “ world’s standard” there IS a EUROPEAN standard but we should never mistake European views for the world as the jerks with that Euro-centric perspective are behind most of the genocide and colonization in history.
How did Harris “do war crimes”? Did she give orders to the IDF? Is she a member of the Israeli government?
It took a while before the international community sort of acknowledged this war was a genocide. Israel always has been great at playing the victim, and has always been under the protection of the US. In this context, the US government under Biden provided support, as it often does. Many other states did, and still do.
My point is, the whole fucking world is complicit. Is everyone a war criminal now? Should we be using this to drive yet another wedge among the left?
My point is, the whole fucking world is complicit.
Most of the world is to an extent, but not all the world is war crime levels of complicit. Arming people with the knowledge they’ll be committing war crimes is a war crime, full stop. Israel was bombing hospitals and aid workers from day one.
Should we be using this to drive yet another wedge among the left?
First, Harris is not part of “the left.” Second, opposing genocide is basic human decency. For any vaguely left-lesning cause, someone who can’t even do that much is less than worthless; they’re a liability.
SHE SUPPORTED AMERICA’S INVOLVEMENT FROM HER POSITION OF POWER. Stop being a bootlicking piece of shit for one second and you’ll realize it’s OK to call her what she is: a goddamned criminal.
People are making this black and white when it is very much not. It’s entirely possible to want the Palestinians to be safe from harm while at the same time wanting to give Israel funding for the Iron Dome and other defensive measures to protect their people from Hamas. During the Biden presidency she pushed for more protection for Palestinian civilians and more to prevent famine, but was blocked by the administration. The VP has very little actual power to enact change.
People are making this black and white when it is very much not.
You’ll do anything to justify the genocide all centrists dearly love.
During the Biden presidency she pushed for more protection for Palestinian civilians and more to prevent famine, but was blocked by the administration.
no. it is not. to support israel is to support genocide. from its inception it’s been genocide the entire time. it is ok for things to feel uncomfortable but that’s how you progress. genocide bad. ok?
Not only Harris supported defensive weapons but also offensive weapon. Don’t you think giving gaza defensive arms would also save palestinian lives too? Would you also have supported Nazi getting weapons from your country while they comited genocide? The occupying forces and grnocidal state shouldn’t have sny right to self defence
Israel created hamas, trough hundred years of genocide and occupation. It is a Zionist settler colonial project created in image of the USA. Hamas are a reaction to exactly that, it is a resistance shaped by generations of genocide, discrimination and persecution. Israel stole the land of Palestine and now wishes to expand towards Lebanon and Syria. And they won’t stop, they are the stronghold of the US interests in the region, they are supported by both parties.
Look at you being reasonable with a nuanced take! Don’t you know that makes you a . . . hangon . . *checks notes* . . Ah, yes - a “bootlicking piece of shit”?
Don’t you know where you are?!? You’re in the lefty jungle, baby! You’re gonna (metaphorically) diiieeeeeee!
In the jungle! Welcome to the lefty jungle! . . . You’re tha - B-b-b-b-b Bourgeoise! HUAGH!
No but srs you make a good point and will be downvoted accordingly. No one will admit Harris was a better candidate than trump. As you see in the video, She, not these arrogant choads, caused trump to win, per the admonition that no one can blame the voters for not voting.
Everyone who, from a place of power to do so, aided in a genocide, in the world, is in fact a war criminal. Yes, that’s what that fucking means. Democrats are not the left. And if I have to support genocide to work with someone I will not be working with that person or their movement. It’s ridiculous I even have to say that.
I’m not American, and am working with parties that affect actual change in my country. What YOU need to realize is that your parties are not the ways you affect actual change anymore in the United States. You have two right wing genocide parties. How you fix that is with popular working class movements, not by shaming people who are actively trying to foster them. Your country is the way it is in large part because of people like you shrieking “vote blue no matter who” while the democrats move further and further to the right and help wreak untold havoc on the rest of the world.
American liberals absolutely do not know what they’re talking about at all
You. Would. Not. Know.
Because politics includes everything, not just soundbites cherrypicked by various propaganda arms, not just random comments on the web. Everything else that makes up a society plays into what politics is. Your understanding is necessarily incomplete - likely very incomplete.
But you do you. I see how well it’s been working in your country so far.
Your buddy did not promise unconditional support for Israel the settler colonial power oppressing and stealing Palestinians land for half a century and billions of military budget to Israel.
You guys are so dumb with your brainless arguments
You said “work for a government” you did not set the goalposts where you are attempting to move them to.
Let’s not get uncivil here given you are complaining the Vice President, who typically has little to no power to effect change, wasn’t an agent of change.
Liberals loved genocide so much they were willing to lose to trump instead of tell netanyahu no. They broke the Leahy law to do so. They’re sticklers for the tiniest policy under all other circumstances because it means they don’t have to pass what they ran on. But they’ll bend over backwards to support genocide.
Liberals actually want to win elections so they wait until they are in power before making any demands.
Progressives will find a hill to die on every single election cycle. As a result, they consistently lose and are unable to enact any change. This is the reason the US government keeps moving right.
Which is another way of saying liberals are pro genocide, or at least okay with it. I’m not, never will be. This is YOUR fault for having zero principles and not demanding the bare minimum from your politicians.
Nope, it is pointing out the reason progressives consistently lose elections. They are willing to let their campaigns die on any hill. Even when winning is the only way to enact change.
Progressives (you included) don’t learn from this lesson no matter how many times voters teach it.
This is why the US government keeps moving right. Progressives would rather throw every election than do what it takes to stop genocide.
If the leftists you hate because and only because they don’t want all Palestinians dead like you always have were so damned important to Harris’ chances, she should have listened to them instead of trying to court people whose policies are identical to yours in the republican party.
I don’t want Palestinians dead. That’s why I am pointing out that progressives lost to AIPAC funded candidates. I want progressives to learn from their mistakes and learn how to run a campaign so that one day they might win an election for a change. Maybe then they can stop suckling at the teat of the DNC to stay alive.
The candidate against Trump was Harris a democrat so I don’t know why you talk about the progressives. Harris had a chance to win if she had a good compaign focusing on the economy so it is ok to critisize her. If the candidate running against Trump was a progressives and had a terrible compaign I would have the same critisim because i am not a cultist like you or the member of the republican cult
If you don’t understand the relationship between progressives protesting the alternative to Trump and Trump winning then I can’t understand it for you. This is common sense.
Open support for Palestine caused progressives candidates to lose to AIPAC funded candidates.
Liberals knew this was a losing move and didn’t choose it.
Progressives, who consistently lose elections, chose to die on this hill so their campaigns died and now they have no way to stop the genocide they amplified.
Yes, yes, Anyone who doesn’t agree with centrists and their support of genocide and absolutely nothing else ever must be a scary foreigner. It explains why you support republican border policy. Don’t want those anti-genocide furriners getting in and giving americans the idea that genocide isn’t the only good in this world.
On of the things that allowed Trump to become president is the division among those who were against him.
She and Biden were right wing war criminal though. Why is it crazy to acknowledge the truth? Because lying and pretending we can be friends with right-wing war criminals might help elect a right-wing war criminal that’s not as insane as the right-wing war criminal that ended up getting elected?
Kamala and Biden said they don’t care about voters who they’ve alienated by committing genocide. They knowingly caused such division, so they’re all to blame for that. Trump being elected can fairly be blamed on them.
She wasn’t a rightwing war criminal because she didn’t have real power yet, but she was definitely an aspiring rightwing war criminal. Surprise surprise, materially supporting genocide is a war crime.
Yeah but things are so much better for palestine under trump. larger munitions are essentially the same, not getting aid as the same as not getting enough. formal annexation of their land is the same as the status quo. This international relations equal war crime is so annoying.
Ok genocide supporter. You just mad that it is Trump who is continuing the grnocide instead of Harris. Anybody in position of power should be persecuted for genocide support including Trump
Removed by mod
Stop living in the American ethos bubble by only comparing her and others to the politicians within our borders. Relative to what the world considers Left and Right to be, she and Biden are Right wing.
She was a world leader. She must be measured as such.
Edit: I don’t think the message warranted moderation and removal.
So we should judge her by European standards which you are calling “the world’s standard”? The left= anti-capitalist is very much a European perspective.
Let’s not continue to mistake Europe and European views for “The World” because that is historically problematic. Much of the world is still trying to figure out what rights people have from/by their governments.
No, you mushroom. I stated the parameters. You’re just too myopic to see beyond your own nose. Kamala is right of center, even in the USA. She’s not “left wing.” She’s left of Trump. I don’t see a single reference to Europe in my first comment.
She is definitely a right wing politician by western standards. And shes at least a funder of war crimes.
I mean what do you call someone who supports right wing policies and does war crimes then?
They think the dems need to move even further right so probably a good leader?
Right wing by whose standards? There are a lot of Euro-centric folks who forget anti-capitalist= leftist is NOT universal.
Understand that your American definition of left and right is not based at all on actual, factual analysis of of political theory and based entirely on American propaganda. There are base definitions for these things, even if Americans seem to think that “the Overton window” is relevant in intelligent discussion around the world with these things. Even if it was it wouldn’t shift the actual definition of these words, but your perceptions by proxy.
I am referring to the actual definitions of these terms.
At a certain point it’s not even worth arguing with these people. They’ve been sold propaganda by American liberals and conservatives for so long that they cannot get it out of their head. They bought it hook line and sinker. They’ve been sitting there while the Overton Windows being shifted and they’ve been going along with it happily.
Yeah man, like I seriously don’t get it. These aren’t difficult concepts, but American liberals are just incapable of understanding that A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL BE HARDLINE ABOUT GENOCIDE. Convince your politicians that it’s not okay to do genocide. I GUARANTEE YOU it’s easier than convincing me that genocide is okay.
I understand that all of your claims are Euro-centric and that’s a problem.
There are definitions of right and left and they are relative to the society in question. Anyone trying to force a universal definition will quickly fond their definitions wanting.
For the USA Harris is center left. In KSA Harris would be extreme far left for suggesting that there should be rights for women and no king. These definitions are relative.
I’m not European. American problems directly affect my country. And these right wing/left wing discussions mean something. Someone cannot claim to be left wing or have my sympathies when they’re just claiming to be left wing while being oppose to me on every issue I care about. I know it’s hard for liberals to understand this, although I have no clue why.
The fact you aren’t European is immaterial as your claim is Euro-centric. Anti-capitalism = left is not universal to all nations. In DPRK suggesting there not be a hereditary dictatorship but rather a parliamentary system would be insanely far left yet that’s standard for most nations.
Not all nations are in the same place for development and it is a colossal mistake to label what is true for Europe as being true for all given the history of evil rooted in Eurocentric perspectives.
Okay, you obviously have no clue what you’re talking about. I’ll leave you to it pal, have a good life.
That’s an odd way of “I would prefer my racist take, thanks”.
By the world’s standards, you potato. By comparing her to others in this country, you corndog-stick. By simply looking at her positions, you meatloaf stain. By whom she supports, you pickle wart.
There is no “ world’s standard” there IS a EUROPEAN standard but we should never mistake European views for the world as the jerks with that Euro-centric perspective are behind most of the genocide and colonization in history.
Go troll elsewhere, you milk stain.
How did Harris “do war crimes”? Did she give orders to the IDF? Is she a member of the Israeli government?
It took a while before the international community sort of acknowledged this war was a genocide. Israel always has been great at playing the victim, and has always been under the protection of the US. In this context, the US government under Biden provided support, as it often does. Many other states did, and still do.
My point is, the whole fucking world is complicit. Is everyone a war criminal now? Should we be using this to drive yet another wedge among the left?
Most of the world is to an extent, but not all the world is war crime levels of complicit. Arming people with the knowledge they’ll be committing war crimes is a war crime, full stop. Israel was bombing hospitals and aid workers from day one.
First, Harris is not part of “the left.” Second, opposing genocide is basic human decency. For any vaguely left-lesning cause, someone who can’t even do that much is less than worthless; they’re a liability.
Never said she was, but I am, maybe you are, as well as a lot of people in this thread who keep insulting each other.
See how this works?
how?
SHE SUPPORTED AMERICA’S INVOLVEMENT FROM HER POSITION OF POWER. Stop being a bootlicking piece of shit for one second and you’ll realize it’s OK to call her what she is: a goddamned criminal.
People are making this black and white when it is very much not. It’s entirely possible to want the Palestinians to be safe from harm while at the same time wanting to give Israel funding for the Iron Dome and other defensive measures to protect their people from Hamas. During the Biden presidency she pushed for more protection for Palestinian civilians and more to prevent famine, but was blocked by the administration. The VP has very little actual power to enact change.
You’ll do anything to justify the genocide all centrists dearly love.
Sure she did. BeHiNd ThE sCeNeS.
no. it is not. to support israel is to support genocide. from its inception it’s been genocide the entire time. it is ok for things to feel uncomfortable but that’s how you progress. genocide bad. ok?
Not only Harris supported defensive weapons but also offensive weapon. Don’t you think giving gaza defensive arms would also save palestinian lives too? Would you also have supported Nazi getting weapons from your country while they comited genocide? The occupying forces and grnocidal state shouldn’t have sny right to self defence
It sounds so simple, it must really be simple.
It is simple to not go to an aipac event and not to promise uncondtional support.
Simple or not is beside the point anyway
Simple is entirely relevant to both national politics and foreign policy.
IT IS NOT SIMPLE.
Treating it as if it is isn’t just wrong, it does everyone a disservice.
You sound so simple.
KHAMAAS!!!
Israel created hamas, trough hundred years of genocide and occupation. It is a Zionist settler colonial project created in image of the USA. Hamas are a reaction to exactly that, it is a resistance shaped by generations of genocide, discrimination and persecution. Israel stole the land of Palestine and now wishes to expand towards Lebanon and Syria. And they won’t stop, they are the stronghold of the US interests in the region, they are supported by both parties.
Look at you being reasonable with a nuanced take! Don’t you know that makes you a . . . hangon . . *checks notes* . . Ah, yes - a “bootlicking piece of shit”?
Don’t you know where you are?!? You’re in the lefty jungle, baby! You’re gonna (metaphorically) diiieeeeeee!
In the jungle! Welcome to the lefty jungle! . . . You’re tha - B-b-b-b-b Bourgeoise! HUAGH!
No but srs you make a good point and will be downvoted accordingly. No one will admit Harris was a better candidate than trump. As you see in the video, She, not these arrogant choads, caused trump to win, per the admonition that no one can blame the voters for not voting.
Everyone who, from a place of power to do so, aided in a genocide, in the world, is in fact a war criminal. Yes, that’s what that fucking means. Democrats are not the left. And if I have to support genocide to work with someone I will not be working with that person or their movement. It’s ridiculous I even have to say that.
Which is why you’re working with a national party that has a real chance of affecting change in America!
Um, which party was that, again?
I’m not American, and am working with parties that affect actual change in my country. What YOU need to realize is that your parties are not the ways you affect actual change anymore in the United States. You have two right wing genocide parties. How you fix that is with popular working class movements, not by shaming people who are actively trying to foster them. Your country is the way it is in large part because of people like you shrieking “vote blue no matter who” while the democrats move further and further to the right and help wreak untold havoc on the rest of the world.
Edited for the sake of civility.
Yeah. Maybe let people who know what they’re talking about - talk. Then.
American liberals absolutely do not know what they’re talking about at all but you do you, I see how well it’s been working so far.
You. Would. Not. Know.
Because politics includes everything, not just soundbites cherrypicked by various propaganda arms, not just random comments on the web. Everything else that makes up a society plays into what politics is. Your understanding is necessarily incomplete - likely very incomplete.
But you do you. I see how well it’s been working in your country so far.
Keep gloating that your only policy is supported by both parties.
Anybody who don’t resign from a government complicit in genocide is a war criminal
Is my buddy a war criminal because he didn’t give up his job with the Postal Service?
Your buddy did not promise unconditional support for Israel the settler colonial power oppressing and stealing Palestinians land for half a century and billions of military budget to Israel.
You guys are so dumb with your brainless arguments
“Anybody who don’t resign from a government complicit in genocide is a war criminal”
“You guys are so dumb with your brainless arguments”
Im 100% positive that no one is dumber than the claims you have made back to back.
Nobody dumber than politician dick suckers like you
Post office delivery drivers are not government officials, dumbass
You said “work for a government” you did not set the goalposts where you are attempting to move them to.
Let’s not get uncivil here given you are complaining the Vice President, who typically has little to no power to effect change, wasn’t an agent of change.
Trump, and these people helped get him elected.
Liberals will never take any personal responsibility under any circumstance and it’s really irritating.
Liberals didn’t protest the alternative to Trump. That was leftists.
Liberals loved genocide so much they were willing to lose to trump instead of tell netanyahu no. They broke the Leahy law to do so. They’re sticklers for the tiniest policy under all other circumstances because it means they don’t have to pass what they ran on. But they’ll bend over backwards to support genocide.
Liberals actually want to win elections so they wait until they are in power before making any demands.
Progressives will find a hill to die on every single election cycle. As a result, they consistently lose and are unable to enact any change. This is the reason the US government keeps moving right.
Which is another way of saying liberals are pro genocide, or at least okay with it. I’m not, never will be. This is YOUR fault for having zero principles and not demanding the bare minimum from your politicians.
Nope, it is pointing out the reason progressives consistently lose elections. They are willing to let their campaigns die on any hill. Even when winning is the only way to enact change.
Progressives (you included) don’t learn from this lesson no matter how many times voters teach it.
This is why the US government keeps moving right. Progressives would rather throw every election than do what it takes to stop genocide.
Harris being bad about economy made her lost
You’re saying leftists helped Trump win because they think his economy is better.
If the leftists you hate because and only because they don’t want all Palestinians dead like you always have were so damned important to Harris’ chances, she should have listened to them instead of trying to court people whose policies are identical to yours in the republican party.
I don’t want Palestinians dead. That’s why I am pointing out that progressives lost to AIPAC funded candidates. I want progressives to learn from their mistakes and learn how to run a campaign so that one day they might win an election for a change. Maybe then they can stop suckling at the teat of the DNC to stay alive.
People from all races and classes was fooled by Trump thanks to the terrible job Harris did in her campaign
If progressives knew how to run a campaign they would be able to win elections.
Progressives lose so consistently that they have to depend on the DNC to even have a voice because there are so few of them.
Progressives can’t even win against AIPAC funded candidates but they will insist that the DNC follow their same losing campaign strategies.
The candidate against Trump was Harris a democrat so I don’t know why you talk about the progressives. Harris had a chance to win if she had a good compaign focusing on the economy so it is ok to critisize her. If the candidate running against Trump was a progressives and had a terrible compaign I would have the same critisim because i am not a cultist like you or the member of the republican cult
If you don’t understand the relationship between progressives protesting the alternative to Trump and Trump winning then I can’t understand it for you. This is common sense.
If the genocide-and-nothing-else wing knew how to run a campaign, we wouldn’t have trump right now.
Open support for Palestine caused progressives candidates to lose to AIPAC funded candidates.
Liberals knew this was a losing move and didn’t choose it.
Progressives, who consistently lose elections, chose to die on this hill so their campaigns died and now they have no way to stop the genocide they amplified.
If she bursts out in laughter rejecting the notion of her having a socialist or progressive perspective; she probably isn’t a leftist, left-leaning, or “center-left”.
Are you an American? It’s relevant to your point.
Yes, yes, Anyone who doesn’t agree with centrists and their support of genocide and absolutely nothing else ever must be a scary foreigner. It explains why you support republican border policy. Don’t want those anti-genocide furriners getting in and giving americans the idea that genocide isn’t the only good in this world.
She and Biden were right wing war criminal though. Why is it crazy to acknowledge the truth? Because lying and pretending we can be friends with right-wing war criminals might help elect a right-wing war criminal that’s not as insane as the right-wing war criminal that ended up getting elected?
Kamala and Biden said they don’t care about voters who they’ve alienated by committing genocide. They knowingly caused such division, so they’re all to blame for that. Trump being elected can fairly be blamed on them.
she definitely is both right wing and a war criminal. she supported genocide… isn’t much more obvious than that…
centrists want to keep supporting genocide without being called the only thing they have ever been.
She supported genocide exactly like you’re doing here.
She wasn’t a rightwing war criminal because she didn’t have real power yet, but she was definitely an aspiring rightwing war criminal. Surprise surprise, materially supporting genocide is a war crime.
She did exercise power and influence. She herself confirmed she was actively involved in these decisions.
And as Biden’s border czar, she deported so many people that even Stephen Miller is struggling to keep pace with her numbers.
She should have resigned but no she accepted a poaition of complicity
Yeah but things are so much better for palestine under trump. larger munitions are essentially the same, not getting aid as the same as not getting enough. formal annexation of their land is the same as the status quo. This international relations equal war crime is so annoying.
So you agree that both supports genocide. Most people would not defend trump here
nope.
Ok genocide supporter. You just mad that it is Trump who is continuing the grnocide instead of Harris. Anybody in position of power should be persecuted for genocide support including Trump
No.
Removed by mod
The munitions are the same size, and the starvation started under Biden. You’re just so brainwashed, it seems to have affected your senses.