Why do Americans always think in violence. The American people put a bunch of nazis into power, now you want Europe to fix it with a full out war. It’s like the US is full of toddlers. Idiocracy was a meant as a comedy, not a manual.
Because the US is NOT a democracy and every single right we have was only won through violence. Civil rights? Malcom X and the Black Panthers had to resort to violence. Gay rights? Please see the Stonewall riots. The right to unionize? Workers had to take up guns and fight the police and military multiple times for the mere right to unionize.
You could’ve just voted for Kamala and there wouldn’t be any need for violence. The US isn’t a democracy because Americans prefer violence over democracy.
Trumps America is truly what America has always been without the squeaky clean public relations veneer of respectability. He takes it two steps above where the dems do. America has needed an uprising since before I was born and its the moderate liberal like you cheerleading for team blue standing in the way.
Joe Biden didnt fix the problem and neither would Kamala. They are the new wheels and a coat of paint on the orphan grinder and trump is a new grinding wheel. The problem is the machinery and you cant fix that with a vote for team blue.
Have you ever considered that the Democractic party isn’t 100% aligned with your views because there’s more people out there that disagree with you than agree with you? That’s part of democracy, accepting that the will of the people may not be the same as what you want and accepting that you need to convince others of your views.
If most people don’t agree with you, and you want to use violence to impose your will on others, then you’re just an authoritarian. You aren’t going to accomplish anything through violence when you’re incapable of convincing anyone through peaceful means. Even if you get power through violence you’d just be another tyrant that people would need to destroy to be able to live in a society they want to live in.
Instead of romanticizing revolutions, maybe try studying the ones that have happened in history and apply some critical thinking. Wanting to end democracy to get your way makes you a fascist no matter how much you tankie rationalizations you try to paint it over with.
I am well aware that their consent has been manufactured successfully, and also that a fascist machine can never be allowed to prevail regardless of its veneer of democracy or legitimacy. Do you honestly look at the American government and see democracy?
Is your advice to the civil rights movements of the past that they should have never pursued direct action because the majority had not deemed it necessary to afford them rights?
The 8 hour workday wasnt worth fighting for? Stonewall should have just stuck to catchy slogans? Your response perfectly encapsulates the danger of the white moderate and the downfall of respectability politics.
Revolutions are made necessary by boot licking sycophants who hold order over justice. In a society that abandons justice there can be no order without authoritarianism**. I dont believe authoritarianism is valid when it has been voted for, it should be met with the same violence it wields against others. **
I see America becoming more fascist every day because both the right and left have been conditioned by social media to hate democracy.
You may feel like you’re better than those that support MAGA, but you really aren’t. You’re the ones falling for catchy slogans like “late stage capitalism” and “genocide Joe” which have “radicalized” you (another way of saying you’ve turned off your brain) to turn against democracy. You’re just as narcissistic as Trump, just you want to be the one imposing your will onto others instead of Trump. Tankies claim to dislike MAGAs but are incapable of seeing they are the exact same kind of people.
By abandoning democracy, the Tankie crowd is just as complicit as the MAGAs in the suffering that will result from fascism. Just got scammed by a different of authoritarian grifters, but the result is the same. Nobody will respect a movement that did nothing while their country became an fascist shithole, and they certainly won’t be making you the authoritarians in charge. The “late stage capitalism” narrative was a scam and you fell for it just as hard as MAGAs fell for Trump telling them he’d bring about a golden age for America.
There are no shortcuts for progress, and you’re currently moving backwards because internet algorithms have made you willing to trade democracy for a fantasy golden age just like the MAGAs.
A whole bunch of assumptions and no substance. Just an elitest lib Pearl clutching because the left wont abandon their principles for diet fascism.
If we had actual direct consensus based democracy I would have a different opinion, but we have an oligarchy in America, an electoral college, closed primary systems with arbitrary rules and super delegates. America is not a democracy.
I concede that revolution is an authoritarian act, but I believe revolution against a tyrannical government is self defense and not only justified but a moral imperative.
I am not even a tankie, and to water down my presumed ideology to feed your sense of superiority is exactly what I expected from you.
Plan A: Isolate the country and after a while the people of that country will be tried of being pariahs and work to get themselves out of being fascist. This worked on Franco’s fascist movement in Spain. But this method can take a long time (generations) but it’s the preferred method since there’s less bloodshed and that is limited to be within the fascist country. Problem is, the fascist country may attack another country which necessitates going to Plan B.
Plan B: All out war. Populations are mobilized, nations become entirely focused on war. Cities bombed to rubble, millions dead. Only after extreme hardship people in a fascist country will accept they aren’t superior to other countries (as the propaganda told them they were) and agree to unconditional surrender. This allows other countries to restructure their political system, and for participation in the fascist movement be prohibited.
Yes, I mentioned it takes a long time - generations. And if by “let him be” you mean nobody went to war with Franco, then yes, that’s why it’s Plan A, the option that doesn’t involve all out war.
Are you looking for an option where the US can quickly end it’s fascist movement? Unless you have a time machine and can go back in time and convince more people to vote for Kamala Harris, then I got nothing for ya. Best case is, the US is Franco’s Spain and it’s going to suck for decades. Worst case the US is WWII Germany, and it’s going to really suck, though for a much shorter period of time.
I love Germany, but Germany is a democracy. The US isn’t. 70%+ of Americans want universal healthcare, but “our” politicians shit on us and laugh. Most Americans want free college, but again, we get zero representation. We want unions, but companies freely fire workers for organizing and our politicians don’t care. South Dakota voted to legalize marijuana but the governor told the people they were too stupid to know what they voted for so she had one of the judges she appointed overrule democracy.
I could go on and on and on. Anyone who thinks the US is a democracy is extremely ignorant on the issue. Merely voting isn’t a democracy. A representative democracy is only a democracy if the representatives serve the will of the majority.
So get back to me when German politicians start ignoring everything the voters want and start gutting all of their public programs instead and then when politicians who promise to help get elected but do absolutely fucking nothing to help you
Education can only be used, when there is a side willing to learn. When they disregard history as fiction, there is no point in educating them. You can also see this with the right Shift in rhetoric in German Media and politics with parties Like AfD, BSW and partly CDU, who are straight Up ignoring history or downplaying it.
I am not American. I don’t want Europe to try and ‘fix’ the US, my suggestions are merely for the EU to avoid being taken over by the US.
Since the US has put a bunch of nazis into power it’s possible it will come to violence or threats of violence. It’s better to be prepared. It’s also better to act first if you know violence is inevitable.Or you could just acquiesce to any demand when threatened. Tariffs, give your natural resources to US companies, ban gays, ban ‘communism’ etc.
It was a call that plans may be required, and honestly that’s probably a good idea. The administration has repeatedly declined to rule out violent invasion when explicitly asked about how far they would go for their stated aspirations for Panama, Greenland, and Canada.
If you have a neighbor that keeps talking about how they want your house and they need to give up your house to them, and they have a whole bunch of weapons that they keep waving at your property while saying that they’ll do “whatever it takes” to have your land, then you don’t just wag your finger at them and say that’s bad and ignore the situation.
It’s not saying EU needs to do first strike, but they need to be prepared to defend their interests from violence as seems possible to be started by the US, which is an insane prospect I never would have imagined being a real thing in my life.
Lol, coming from people living in a country where school shootings are normal, who’ve been in wars 222 of the past 239 years, who threaten to invade Greenland, Canada and Panama, who commit crimes against humanity and has slavery in its incarceration system, who has the largest military budget of the world by far, who had the strongest military force out there…
And the only thing foreigners understand is violence?!?
Don’t forget their police who don’t have any kind of proper training so precincts have to find training on their own, which often leads to some pretty fucked up stuff. Themes will likely include making cops feel less like community protectors and more like “warriors” who are closer to Batman than real, engaged community support. Also those same cops have one helluva rate of domestic violence.
And then they’ll see people say stuff like that and start calling out corrupt police in some of the worst places on Earth as if the “greatest country” should be proud of clearing the lowest bar. It’s maddening because you can’t even talk to them without them getting hyper-defensive and angry.
Why do Americans always think in violence. The American people put a bunch of nazis into power, now you want Europe to fix it with a full out war. It’s like the US is full of toddlers. Idiocracy was a meant as a comedy, not a manual.
Because the US is NOT a democracy and every single right we have was only won through violence. Civil rights? Malcom X and the Black Panthers had to resort to violence. Gay rights? Please see the Stonewall riots. The right to unionize? Workers had to take up guns and fight the police and military multiple times for the mere right to unionize.
You could’ve just voted for Kamala and there wouldn’t be any need for violence. The US isn’t a democracy because Americans prefer violence over democracy.
Trumps America is truly what America has always been without the squeaky clean public relations veneer of respectability. He takes it two steps above where the dems do. America has needed an uprising since before I was born and its the moderate liberal like you cheerleading for team blue standing in the way.
Joe Biden didnt fix the problem and neither would Kamala. They are the new wheels and a coat of paint on the orphan grinder and trump is a new grinding wheel. The problem is the machinery and you cant fix that with a vote for team blue.
Have you ever considered that the Democractic party isn’t 100% aligned with your views because there’s more people out there that disagree with you than agree with you? That’s part of democracy, accepting that the will of the people may not be the same as what you want and accepting that you need to convince others of your views.
If most people don’t agree with you, and you want to use violence to impose your will on others, then you’re just an authoritarian. You aren’t going to accomplish anything through violence when you’re incapable of convincing anyone through peaceful means. Even if you get power through violence you’d just be another tyrant that people would need to destroy to be able to live in a society they want to live in.
Instead of romanticizing revolutions, maybe try studying the ones that have happened in history and apply some critical thinking. Wanting to end democracy to get your way makes you a fascist no matter how much you tankie rationalizations you try to paint it over with.
Tell that to France. I think they’re doing quite well. They refused to put up with 1789 oligarchs.
I am well aware that their consent has been manufactured successfully, and also that a fascist machine can never be allowed to prevail regardless of its veneer of democracy or legitimacy. Do you honestly look at the American government and see democracy?
Is your advice to the civil rights movements of the past that they should have never pursued direct action because the majority had not deemed it necessary to afford them rights?
The 8 hour workday wasnt worth fighting for? Stonewall should have just stuck to catchy slogans? Your response perfectly encapsulates the danger of the white moderate and the downfall of respectability politics.
Revolutions are made necessary by boot licking sycophants who hold order over justice. In a society that abandons justice there can be no order without authoritarianism**. I dont believe authoritarianism is valid when it has been voted for, it should be met with the same violence it wields against others. **
I see America becoming more fascist every day because both the right and left have been conditioned by social media to hate democracy.
You may feel like you’re better than those that support MAGA, but you really aren’t. You’re the ones falling for catchy slogans like “late stage capitalism” and “genocide Joe” which have “radicalized” you (another way of saying you’ve turned off your brain) to turn against democracy. You’re just as narcissistic as Trump, just you want to be the one imposing your will onto others instead of Trump. Tankies claim to dislike MAGAs but are incapable of seeing they are the exact same kind of people.
By abandoning democracy, the Tankie crowd is just as complicit as the MAGAs in the suffering that will result from fascism. Just got scammed by a different of authoritarian grifters, but the result is the same. Nobody will respect a movement that did nothing while their country became an fascist shithole, and they certainly won’t be making you the authoritarians in charge. The “late stage capitalism” narrative was a scam and you fell for it just as hard as MAGAs fell for Trump telling them he’d bring about a golden age for America.
There are no shortcuts for progress, and you’re currently moving backwards because internet algorithms have made you willing to trade democracy for a fantasy golden age just like the MAGAs.
A whole bunch of assumptions and no substance. Just an elitest lib Pearl clutching because the left wont abandon their principles for diet fascism.
If we had actual direct consensus based democracy I would have a different opinion, but we have an oligarchy in America, an electoral college, closed primary systems with arbitrary rules and super delegates. America is not a democracy.
I concede that revolution is an authoritarian act, but I believe revolution against a tyrannical government is self defense and not only justified but a moral imperative.
I am not even a tankie, and to water down my presumed ideology to feed your sense of superiority is exactly what I expected from you.
But but Genocide but but her emails… but but he’s old but but…
The last time trump lost they stormed the Capitol.
I can’t imagine they’d be more peaceful a 2nd time around.
So voting him into office is the better option? Come on now.
How have fascists typically been successfully handled by the international community in the past?
There’s only two methods.
Plan A: Isolate the country and after a while the people of that country will be tried of being pariahs and work to get themselves out of being fascist. This worked on Franco’s fascist movement in Spain. But this method can take a long time (generations) but it’s the preferred method since there’s less bloodshed and that is limited to be within the fascist country. Problem is, the fascist country may attack another country which necessitates going to Plan B.
Plan B: All out war. Populations are mobilized, nations become entirely focused on war. Cities bombed to rubble, millions dead. Only after extreme hardship people in a fascist country will accept they aren’t superior to other countries (as the propaganda told them they were) and agree to unconditional surrender. This allows other countries to restructure their political system, and for participation in the fascist movement be prohibited.
I dunno if Franco’s Spain is a good example. Post-WW2, the US and its western allies mostly let him be. He was a reliable anti-communist, after all.
The regime ended when he died.
Yes, I mentioned it takes a long time - generations. And if by “let him be” you mean nobody went to war with Franco, then yes, that’s why it’s Plan A, the option that doesn’t involve all out war.
Are you looking for an option where the US can quickly end it’s fascist movement? Unless you have a time machine and can go back in time and convince more people to vote for Kamala Harris, then I got nothing for ya. Best case is, the US is Franco’s Spain and it’s going to suck for decades. Worst case the US is WWII Germany, and it’s going to really suck, though for a much shorter period of time.
And both of those options require removing us bases from foreign countries lmao
Look at Germany, education is the answer.
edit: I was wrong, I don’t know the answer also I learned America is not a democracy.
I love Germany, but Germany is a democracy. The US isn’t. 70%+ of Americans want universal healthcare, but “our” politicians shit on us and laugh. Most Americans want free college, but again, we get zero representation. We want unions, but companies freely fire workers for organizing and our politicians don’t care. South Dakota voted to legalize marijuana but the governor told the people they were too stupid to know what they voted for so she had one of the judges she appointed overrule democracy.
I could go on and on and on. Anyone who thinks the US is a democracy is extremely ignorant on the issue. Merely voting isn’t a democracy. A representative democracy is only a democracy if the representatives serve the will of the majority.
So get back to me when German politicians start ignoring everything the voters want and start gutting all of their public programs instead and then when politicians who promise to help get elected but do absolutely fucking nothing to help you
Education can only be used, when there is a side willing to learn. When they disregard history as fiction, there is no point in educating them. You can also see this with the right Shift in rhetoric in German Media and politics with parties Like AfD, BSW and partly CDU, who are straight Up ignoring history or downplaying it.
Germany is your example of a fascist state that didn’t require violence to bring under control?
I am not American. I don’t want Europe to try and ‘fix’ the US, my suggestions are merely for the EU to avoid being taken over by the US.
Since the US has put a bunch of nazis into power it’s possible it will come to violence or threats of violence. It’s better to be prepared. It’s also better to act first if you know violence is inevitable.Or you could just acquiesce to any demand when threatened. Tariffs, give your natural resources to US companies, ban gays, ban ‘communism’ etc.
But Europe knows that appeasement works against a violent invader. They proved that was a good strategy in the 1930s.
It was a call that plans may be required, and honestly that’s probably a good idea. The administration has repeatedly declined to rule out violent invasion when explicitly asked about how far they would go for their stated aspirations for Panama, Greenland, and Canada.
If you have a neighbor that keeps talking about how they want your house and they need to give up your house to them, and they have a whole bunch of weapons that they keep waving at your property while saying that they’ll do “whatever it takes” to have your land, then you don’t just wag your finger at them and say that’s bad and ignore the situation.
It’s not saying EU needs to do first strike, but they need to be prepared to defend their interests from violence as seems possible to be started by the US, which is an insane prospect I never would have imagined being a real thing in my life.
I’ve had Americans say to me that the only thing foreigners understand is violence.
Lol, coming from people living in a country where school shootings are normal, who’ve been in wars 222 of the past 239 years, who threaten to invade Greenland, Canada and Panama, who commit crimes against humanity and has slavery in its incarceration system, who has the largest military budget of the world by far, who had the strongest military force out there…
And the only thing foreigners understand is violence?!?
Oh the fucking irony.
Don’t forget their police who don’t have any kind of proper training so precincts have to find training on their own, which often leads to some pretty fucked up stuff. Themes will likely include making cops feel less like community protectors and more like “warriors” who are closer to Batman than real, engaged community support. Also those same cops have one helluva rate of domestic violence.
And then they’ll see people say stuff like that and start calling out corrupt police in some of the worst places on Earth as if the “greatest country” should be proud of clearing the lowest bar. It’s maddening because you can’t even talk to them without them getting hyper-defensive and angry.
Because it is. And like toddlers they have shat the bed and expect someone to clean up after them.