Am I dumb or is the the reply nonsense
Seems nonsense to me, no clue what it means or more crucially if it’s even a good or bad thing.
You need to read much more from independent journalists and dissident sources.
Echo chambers and self-censorship do not help us; they hinder us from learning and growing as people.
Most of the media is pro-Israel misinformation controlled by the oligarchy; the duopoly is also controlled by the oligarchy.
Search up the Hannibal Directive as well.
Quick search:
https://electronicintifada.net/content/how-israel-killed-hundreds-its-own-people-7-october/49216
?
I did a quick explanation of my findings, which did include reading some of that article, though I found it independently.
NGL that article in particular is a bit of a sprawling mess and not easy to comprehend quickly.
After arguing with some.people about things and finally going and reading a bunch of shit, I’m pretty sure it’s in reference to the people that were at a rave like ~4 miles from Gaza and a military base that was a target for the oct 7 attack, and because of the proximity there was lots of confusion about who was military or civilian. Also one thing I read said the rave location was announced like 1 day before, so Hamas also did not know it was happening. Anyways a bunch of people died and were taken hostage from it
So basically BE is alluding to "Coachella” (the rave) next to “Auschwitz”(Gaza) and blaming the capture/death on the people who went there
Don’t forget that Israel also had intel regarding an upcoming attack but took no action.
https://warontherocks.com/2024/10/israels-oct-7-early-warning-failure-who-is-to-blame/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-us-lawmaker-affirms-cairo-warned-israel-days-before-onslaught/
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israel-s-shin-bet-received-intelligence-prior-to-oct-7-attack-report/3094202Many other sources to be found online.
True, was just explaining the particular thing I believe BE to be referencing
Makes perfect sense to me, not sure what to tell you.
The reply is accurate.
We must continue to learn and use our critical thinking muscles so as to get past the propaganda we are born into.
The first
Imagine actually engaging with people and having a conversation
Here you go a detailed explanation of the reply. https://youtu.be/Pt_1k7nSv1M
He’s just answering the question
Well, your reply was:
Am I dumb or is the the reply nonsense
You set yourself up for failure.
Then you blame them for answering your question directly.
We all can and should continue to improve our communication skills.
We are mostly all human here, so we always have room for improvement and civility.
Some take the high road, and some say “f the high road.”
To be fair the expected (and common and civil) kinds of replies to such a comment are either to agree with the second item, or to explain why they misunderstand.
Sure, just saying “yea ur dumb lol” is technically a reasonable answer, but is not helpful to the discussion, and is pretty rude as a response to a partially self-depricating comment.
“Kidnapped from tank”
I mean yeah that’s obviously dumb Israeli propaganda but how is that responding to my comment?
I recommend that Fanon guy I talked about in the title. For more info https://youtu.be/Pt_1k7nSv1M
We can denounce Israel without justifying other atrocities. Do better.
You hate genocide but you want genocidee to stay unprotected.
Also B99 is stupid copaganda.
No, you actually can’t. There are only two sides, the occupation and the resistance. There’s no secret third option you can support to feel morally cozy and superior to the people actually fighting for their lives. You have to actually pick a side, and if you try to choose neither you just end up supporting the side with all the power i.e. Israel.
If you don’t support the resistance and their revolutionary actions, you support their extermination.
Shall we support resistance against imperialism, even if it’s a fascist one that would oppress or shall stand next to every oppressed ? It could be a deep political split, for exemple between communists and anarchists, but not in this contexte.
Their is no way to really support arm resistance from US or Europe. But we have some ways to stop Israel support. Defending the Hamas will result in being marginalized from the mass, even if they do support Palestine, for no concrets support for any resistance.
This strategically a none-sense and just a posture
Shall we support resistance against imperialism, even if it’s a fascist one that would oppress or shall stand next to every oppressed ?
Ever heard of supporting the lesser evil? I bet that’s the basis for how you vote. Just apply that to geopolitics.
Yep I hear that catastrophic take, it’s always a shortcut to reproduce oppression. But that not the point.
What is the gain of supporting Hamas from Europe/US ? Is their weapon or training that will stop Israel ? If yes, even if I disagree politically, I would not argue on the strategy; but it’s not.
We struggling to send foods and first help kit to civilian. We are not in the situation where this is a question.
Todays western left is more eager to pose than to act, and in this situations, when leftist say such things as “supporting arm resistance” it’s just make people turn away.
Our class is deeply concern with Palestine situation, and the first mobilisation has to be stongly repressed by the bourgeoisie in order to stop the movement to be massive. However, the repression in a lot of countries have stopped month ago, and we are a very few to go to demonstrations and actions. We have to ask why. And I think that when people mobilize against the murder of civilian, they don’t want to hear others promoting civilian murderer
The government cracked down on people protesting against Israel and so the protests stopped. That’s it. That’s the whole reason.
If our support didn’t matter they wouldn’t have proscribed Palestine Action or deported college campus occupation organizers. Our support matters, the problem is that we were defeated.
In the US and Germany, maybe. In Italy, Spain, France, and a lot more places, their is no repression anymore. Italy got massive demonstrations recently, but this is an exception and if we want to support Palestine, we have to ask ourselves why.
My point is the contradiction of trying to mobilize for peace with bellicose words. Other causes could may be found, but it seems that nobody are interested in discuss about it.
What is need of being verbose about arm resistance in the support Palestine freedom ? I pointed ou the people we lose in this support, but if I’m missing something that our support may earn, please tell me
You’re just asserting that we lose support when we express our support for Palestinian resistance, but I don’t think we do. Why do you think the “do you condemn Hamas?” ritual happens? It’s a tool to demobilize people. It’s a trick they use on you to separate you from the actual resistance and leave you alienated from the struggle.
Condemning Hamas never helps anyway. Never ever never. Every fucking time they just call you a Hamas supporter anyway. So, why bother?
Give Zionists zero ground and never compromise.
Todays western left is more eager to pose than to act, and in this situations, when leftist say such things as “supporting arm resistance” it’s just make people turn away.
Genocide supporters aren’t people silly.
If you still didn’t understand hamas were right to fight back against their genociders you might as well be a genocide denialist. Don’t pretend to be a good person.
I don’t pretend to be a good person. I don’t care, I’m no biggot.
I’m pointing out that the representation of anti-imperialism stand is not necessarily a concrete anti-imperialist stand. Thinkinq that being verbal about a cause is supporting it, and that “being a good person” a politic goal, is not being materialist, and could not lead to concrete change.
“We hate genocide but we thing the victims should stay unprotected”
Typical idealistic bullshit from first worlders
You didn’t read me. I said exactly the opposite.
You are literally saying we shouldn’t support “armed resistance”.
I support the resistance. I do not support all of their actions.
I support the right for Israel to exist as a sovereign state. I support almost none of their recent actions, and absolutely none of their military actions.
That you cannot hold multiple complex ideas in your head at once is a personal failing on your part. You may want simple, binary, black and white realities but they virtually never exist in reality.
Any group that is beyond reproach is immoral by definition.
Once again: Do better.
I support the right for Israel to exist as a sovereign state.
Really? Why? You know they stole their land yes?
Israel is a settler colony and obviously doesn’t have a right to exist. By trying to hold contradictory ideas at the same time you have ended up siding with the occupation, and you support Israel keeping the land it already stole when it was created.
Beyond being a settler colony they’ve also demonstrated their society as irredeemable. At this point? It’s obvious saying Israel has a right to exist is indistinguishable from saying Nazi Germany has a right to exist.
You only proved my point. You both sides’d yourself into supporting the Nakba.
You just ignored thousands of years of history prior to the formation of Israel, as well as the role the international community played in its formation, just to make your naive, myopic point.
So no, you haven’t proved anything but the fact that you will say whatever is easiest to push your agenda.
Peace out ✌️
Ah yes israelis have the right to exist because abraham lived there 5000 years ago
Israel is a fucking crusader state, but you won’t acknowledge that thousand years of history because its inconvenient.
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Good lord, why did you insufferable losers even leave Reddit?
We can denounce Israel without denouncing the resistance. Do better.
Did I denounce the resistance? No, I denounced you. And murder.
Weird hill to die on
Zoran is including the IDF soldiers killed in his supposed war crime statistic. And you are defending it.
Okay, so he got a number a bit wrong. Does that make him criticizing Oct 7 invalid? If he had the correct number, would you be perfectly fine with the statement?
It’s fine to correct numbers, but it feels like you (and others) are using this as an excuse to target something deeper than him getting a number wrong.
He didn’t “get it a bit wrong”. He gave the number including Israeli soldiers in purpose.
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You’re being deliberately obtuse and you know it.
I’d ask for a source on this but I know you don’t have one
Kinda sad watching the left call him an Israeli shill while the right calls him a Palestinian shill. Thus is the unfortunate lot of brown people. Ever a tool of people with an agenda.
Zohran is not the first person to be accused of malicious intent by both sides of an issue using completely opposite reasoning (both flawed) and he certainly won’t be the last. But it will always make me laugh at the stupidity of people who talk out of their ass.
You really think Zohran and however many other people from his team who wrote and proofread this statement just all had no idea what the civilian death count was? You think they just pulled whatever number came to mind without looking it up or even double checking it?
Partially. The reply to his tweet still fully stands. But including IDF soldiers as victims makes it way worse.
Khamas kidnapped my baby from inside the IDF tank he was piloting
I can’t tell if BE is being sympathetic to zohrans statement or not
Seems like a decent enough statement for his current situation with being associated with the DNC tbh, and I don’t really watch BE or know his opinions on zohran
Okay but do you seriously think, in this political climate where everyone is cucked by Israel, that he could have gotten anywhere near the attention and support to win his election by not saying Oct 7 was bad? He was the most progressive/socialist candidate on the field, and honestly it’s stupid that he has to repeatedly talk about Israel in the first place, when he had zero power to change anything about our relations with Israel/the genocide.
And even then, the most I’ve ever seen him ‘denounce imperialism’ is to say Oct 7 was bad, which if you think that crosses the line you are out of touch with our political reality. Hell, I think in one of the debates he refused to even do the whole ‘i condemn hamas’ bit, and was pretty much fully critical of Israel
He won his primary without capitulating to Zionists. So yes. We already know from Corbyn that Zionists don’t care. They went into a hissy fit over the second part of his post.
Zohran would have done good to shut up but he had to suck off the occupation.
The “progressive” Democrats, DSA, Justice Democrats, and all other groups are a failed experiment.
No matter how many times it is tried, it is a failed strategy.
We must build an independent, from-the-duopoly, working-class party and movement.
Chris Smalls and Kshama Sawant are great examples of people working towards this.
Links:
That’s not really going go help by the next few elections starting out from scratch. The new head of the DNC is rather progressive.
It is not from scratch; these are an ongoing process, many decades in the making.
New groups are formed, and old groups continue to do the grassroots work.
The duopoly propaganda is what keeps the working class and poor from learning about them.
Bernie Sanders and AOC were also “progressives” until it came to the Palestinian people.
The system changes you; you don’t change the system from within.
We can see this happening already with Zohran Mamdani.
Who should I vote for in the next election to help with this process? People standing up against the Democrats stance on Palestine and Israel really helped this last time.
I agree the two party system is completely broken but it’s too late to switch to these new groups. Would have been much easier under a Harris term or in 2016.
it’s too late to switch to these new groups.
I disagree.
It is not too late; organizing and growing a grassroots movement will always be required.
Would have been much easier under a Harris term or in 2016.
This lie was also told under Obama and Genocide Joe. It will not be easy under any duopoly pseudo-populist.
Third-party wins on the local level are happening, but they are ignored by the media and duopoly.
I follow this mantra:
“We should focus our actions, time, and resources on Direct Action, Mutual Aid, and Community Outreach. If you do engage in Electoral Politics do not support the Duopoly (Red or Blue Team). No War but Class War!”
I totally agree with the grassroots movements I’m part of my local one but on the larger stage no action has been accomplished and you still have yet to provide any actual actions that can be performed now and in the next election. Unfortunately we’ll be locked into this two party system for the future and a third option is non viable.
any actual actions that can be performed now and in the next election.
Organizing the working class against the duopoly. This starts by being a part of your local community.
Unfortunately we’ll be locked into this two party system for the future and a third option is non viable.
The main point is not voting for the duopoly and helping third parties.
Again:
“We should focus our actions, time, and resources on Direct Action, Mutual Aid, and Community Outreach.”
Joining and continuing to help grow these working-class movements is the goal.
You may not like my answer, but it is the only way to push for working-class struggles.
It is not and never will be easy, but it must be done.
Appreciate the info, I’m going to keep volunteering and donating and helping grassroots wherever I can but also going to be helping thinktanks like Leaders we Deserve who are helping to shape the future of the DNC for actionable change at the larger level. Have a good weekend
Would have been much easier under a Harris term or in 2016.
BlueMAGA Dems just casually pretending that 2020 to 2024 never happened.
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Go back to Reddit
Nah I was good in the thread until you got here. This is why the Left is such a mess, edge lords saying nobody is good enough and nothing ever gets done except the county moving more to the right. I’m as progressive as you can get, I’m also a realist knowing what we’re dealing with but keep arguing with everyone so nothing gets done. Hope you find whatever it is you’re looking for, cheers.
