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Correction
they’re being sent to this moundHonestly, it’s even worse than racism. It’s just full on indiscriminate cruelty. I’ve seen people not caring even if they’re white, just zero empathy and full-throated cheerleading. They just tell themselves “they’re criminals” and don’t want to accept the reality that’s staring them in the face — probably because of the implication (that they’ve been downplaying MAGA’s words and actions for so long while “alarmist leftists” were trying to warn them, making them complicit in the horrors of today).
It’s cruelty for racism’s sake, they’re white but poor and uneducated, so it must be the fault of the browns and the libs, anyone but themselves.
That’s certainly a part of it, especially the performative cruelty to own the libs. Though I think it goes beyond one group targeting another. It feels like a broad generic metastasized bigotry: a low-trust society full of people so high on their own grievances that they love nothing more than taking revenge on strangers. Sure, racism makes it more likely they target minorities, but that doesn’t mean everyone else is safe. When people are this paranoid, they’re just looking for reasons to blame anybody who gives them a bad “vibe” (which is most people). And they revel in it.
I know it’s not everyone behaving like this, and yes some do it more than others (e.g. uneducated white men), but it sure feels like so many people of all races/genders/etc. are fine just outsourcing their cruelty to the regime. It doesn’t matter if the targets are one race or the other, they hate them all the same (they’ll make up reasons on the spot) because they’ve learned either to take sadistic pleasure in the cruelty itself (i.e. the cruelty is the point and the target is just the “object” the cruelty is applied to, feeling just as good to them when it’s a brown Venezuelan man or a white Canadian woman) or simply to ignore it, excuse it and just not care.
It’s like Orwell’s two minutes of hate, all the time and for no reason.
I agree it’s not purely racism, it’s generally hate of ‘the other’.
However, I’m brown, and I the only place in America that I’ve directly experixed this kind of absolute, all-consuming hatred has been in the south.
White men everywhere else have been quite decent, even rural white men.
But southerners… Hitler wrote about Jim crow in mein kampf as the model for Germany to follow, and black GIs came back from liberating Europe to be lynched for being uppity.
I have never witness or experienced such unimaginable hatred in my life, it’s as though it’s all they have room for in their hearts.
It’s as though they generally felt they were suffering badly, and their only hope for redemption with through causing as much pain and damage as possible to those who weren’t their community’s ideal archetype.
Exactly, that’s what I was getting at. I’d find it intolerable to live like that (which is what fuels their bigotry, no doubt).
I’m very sorry to hear about your experiences. I hope you’re able to shield yourself from harm until this regrettable period can be overcome. Stay safe.
Thanks, I managed to escape the south for the coasts and now got my family out to Europe.
The monsters are rampaging, and America has fallen to their inhuman rage.
Oh, I’m happy for you!
I’m also in Europe but a little too far east for my liking. Thinking about leaving as well (not far, just a few countries over, somewhere nice).
Yeah, it looks like America will get much worse before it gets better.
Northern Europe is just heaven.
America will get far, far worse, this is a debt centuries in the making.
How can they be criminals if they have no trial?
I mean wouldn’t someone that’s here legally be able to prove it with a green card? Isn’t it like a physical thing like our American passport for example? That’s what I would think.
ICE arrested a guy the other day, at his citizenship hearing. They don’t care.
Another one from the other day, ICE also arrested a guy for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, they were after someone specific, and just grabbed a guy because he was brown skinned.
If you aren’t allowed to even provide your documentation because there’s no due process, then that documentation does no good.
Shocking news: its possible to prove that you’re here legally or that you should be allowed to be here legally, its called going through the legal system and due process. If someone isnt here legally thats for the courts to decide
Failing to produce a green card automatically makes you an illegal resident?
That’s not what I’m saying ? I’m asking, if You are a legal resident you would have a green card right? So wouldn’t they just be able to show that they have a green card to prove that they have legal residency? It’s a question. What I’m saying is by showing that you have a green card it proves that you are a legal resident. For example of someone tried to tell me that I wasn’t an American citizen I could just show them my passport and that ends that. And wouldn’t anyone that’s here legally have a green card? Or could they still be here legally before obtaining a green card?
So you are walking down the street, being a super careful to always have your passport. Then a van pulls up and stuffs you in it. You declare you have a passport and are a citizen, but they don’t care. You didn’t get due process to show your documentation because they “mistakenly” put you down the “no due process” path.
It isn’t really possible to assure due process for only select people, either everyone must have it or else anyone could have due process denied under a claim that they belong to the “no due process” class.
Due process does not necessarily mean leniency, it just means a reasonable process and a chance to be heard and present your documentation and such. Without that guarantee, there’s no accountability of the enforcers and no guarantee you even can present your documentation.
The short answer is - yes, there are a bunch of ways to be legally in the United States without a green card. These tend to be temporary, or contingent on other things, so harder to track and produce immediate evidence of.
The longer answer is, it doesn’t matter. Deportation is a tool in the government’s tool kit for dealing with those who entered the country illegally - but Deportation is a process, with steps, due process and it requires the ability for the potential deportee to argue their case to an immigration judge. Being grabbed by masked thugs off the street, taking a brief layover in Louisiana while they fuel the plane and then being deported to a torture facility in El Salvador without so much as ever speaking to your lawyer is a contravention of your rights. Your human rights, your 5th Amendment rights, take your pick.
Kilmar Abrego Garcia, for example, was never formally granted asylum. He missed the filing deadline of one year. However, in his original deportation trial he showed significant evidence and credible testimony that he had fled El Salvador to escape being forced to join the gang that was shaking down his family for protection money. The only reason he wasn’t deported after that original hearing was that a Judge granted him hold order - stating he specifically could not be deported to El Salvador because his life would be in danger. It’s unlikely he has any simple card or document that shows that order he could carry with him. In direct violation of that order, ICE sent him anyway. He’s almost certainly dead.
Tell this to Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was here legally, and was grabbed and sent to a prison in El Salvador. The government isn’t giving people any opportunity to prove their status. That’s what we mean when we say they’re not being given “due process.” There’s not a trial or anything. They’re just grabbed and hauled away.
Because criminals don’t deserve due process! My government told me so! I am very smart! Checkmate, libs!
VERY big /s
Appeal to Authority Fallacy.
“If a cop says you’re guilty, you must be a criminal”
🤦♂️
Because some people think that the police using their power against you makes you automatically wrong and evil. We call those people bootlickers.
Because habeas corpus applies only to those with sufficient privilege.
I think “criminal” can just mean someone who has committed a crime while not having been in a trial convicted of it
Don’t spread that idea, that’s how we got here.
The law is that a person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. (Yes, yes I know “for now” and the rule of law has ended you pedants let me have my modicum of hope.)
For decades people have been “convicting” others in the court of public opinion which has caused the general public to think they know better than a judge and jury while only having information from hearsay, rumors, and the news. That leads them to disregard court findings and believe people to be guilty who are not and people to be innocent who are not. So people who they don’t like are going to prison in El Salvador and people they do like are president.
It’s not an idea, that’s just how the word works. It can have different and more specific meanings in different context but generally a criminal is someone who has committed a crime.
Sort of, a criminal is someone who has been found guilty of committing a crime.
The way we prove that guilt, from the perspective of the US, is through the courts. Until the guilt is proven through the courts they are not a criminal but the accused of an alleged crime. Really seems like far to many people like to glaze over that part and just jump straight to an accused being guilty without due process.
It doesn’t say have been found guilty, it says is guilty. Someone who has committed a crime is guilty of it, whether or not it has been proven in court.
justly chargeable with or responsible for a usually grave breach of conduct or a crime
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guilty
“Innocent until proven guilty” is a legal principle. Like I tried to explain, there’s different context where in a court you could say that they can’t consider someone guilty (and a criminal for that particular thing) until proven so, but you can still be a criminal outside of specific legal language for being guilty, meaning having committed a crime.
Guilt also means different things, it can mean you have actually committed it (factual guilt seems to be the term for it) and legal guilt is the one proven and assigned in court.
This is just Trump and the Central Park 5 all over again. They’re guilty because Trump feels they’re guilty. The fact they’re not actually guilty doesn’t matter.
If you’re against authoritarianism, you should demand a trial and not just some schmuck politician labeling you a criminal being enough to send you to your death in some foreign prison.
The fact that there’s not a uproar from the don’t tread on me crowds just reinforces the idea that they don’t see these people as like them. If this was some redneck that was randomly pointed at and said he’s a criminal and then deported to a foreign prison they would be upset. The fact that there aren’t just shows you that they see these guys as “the other”. And why do they see him as the other? That’s the question this cartoon is trying to answer…
There should be a second sticker being covered under white that reads “rich”.
Not for the trumpster bubble. He would be the marionette controlled by Rupert Murdoch
Then why Trump fears going to court to prove his accusations? He declared them terrorists, so he can pursue deportations under INA, which entitles the deportees to a court hearing, yet he invoked a wartime 1798 law specifically to avoid having to prove his hypothesis.
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you can say that again
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Pizzacake is such a shit comic.
I’m pretty new to Lemmy and not familiar with Pizzacake, even though I was on Reddit for years (never really went to r/all, just my curated feed). They seem pretty divisive here. Can you fill me in on them? Is it just the artwork, or is there some back story I don’t know about?
Her points are typically very surface level, blatantly obvious, and playing to the gallery. There’s no subtlety or nuance.
Also, her art is awful.
I personally don’t like the style. If i remember, many of the content just didn’t make sense, more of a personal viewpoint. Anyone that made any critique/complaint was quickly met with attitude from OP/artist.
I left reddit because it is far too common to see this dog shit comic on or near the front page
Big pile of dog shit.
This actually harms the movement, just like when people posts lists of african americans killed by police in traffic stops and in their homes but convienently excluded the 7 out of 10 such individuals who were white.
Yes, MAGA is racist, minorities are all at particularly higher risk, but the administration is also dangerous to those poor stupid white people.
Calling Trump supporters racist harms the movement? What movement are you talking about? The MAGA movement?
I see you didn’t make it half way into my two paragraph comment. I am disappointed but I somewhat understand. If you give me another chance you will see that I called them racist in my comment.
When you see images like this of people who were sent from the USA to El Salvador prisons because of affiliation, completely random tattoos of trains, where they happened to live, etc and the first thought in your head was “because they’re not white” I would think you wete completely mental.
It is possible to have multiple discussions about topics, each focusing on different topics with different levels of depth. For example, I can say “climate change is bad because it make home insurance prices go up”. That’s a shallow take on a narrow aspect of climate change, but it still makes a sound point. It doesn’t mention larger more important problems, but it also doesn’t ‘hurt the cause’.
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It has been proven that Trump is a violent rapist. I’d rather have an alleged gang member, who has obviously reformed, on the streets than an insane felon ruling the country like a tyrant.
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According to a study cited by The Sentencing Project, about 1% of people released from prison after serving time for a violent crime were subsequently arrested for murder within five years of release. So why focus on that one case, just because it is about an immigrant?
Let me ask you a simple question what justifies the attempted coup? The overthrowing of democracy by a bunch of violent rioters storming the capital?
Nothing justifies that absolutely nothing that was horrible what happened on January 6 and quite frankly was embarrassing that is something that should be happening in 3rd world countries not in America. I’m not some crazy right wing person, there’s some things I agree with and there’s some things I disagree with. The people in CECOT Specifically are known violent gang members that even have the tattoos of their gang on their face they are never leaving they are there for the rest of their life. Which is good because the people of El Salvador can live peacefully and not have to worry about getting murdered on the street for pocket change or getting robbedwhile being on the bus Or extorted every month just for living in a certain community. The people that are proven to be violent murderers and rapist will never come out of that jail. But again I’m not so crazy right wing guy I’m from Massachusetts I voted Democrat my whole life
The people in CECOT Specifically are known violent gang members
Through which process was this proven?
The people in CECOT Specifically are known violent gang members that even have the tattoos of their gang on their face they are never leaving they are there for the rest of their life.
The man from Maryland was not a gang member. Why do you trust that this is true?
Dishonest interlocutor,
Only a racist and bigot would attempt to justify harm to someone on the basis of their nationality, or race, or immigrant status by using the crimes of another.
Enjoy this list of murder victims for which you are not held to account, yet enjoy the same immigration status of their killer:
- Lynda Ann Healy
- Georgann Hawkins
- Janice Ott
- Denise Naslund
- Kimberly Leach
- Timothy McCoy
- John Butkovitch
- Robert Piest
- Steven Hicks
- Anthony Sears
- Konerak Sinthasomphone
- Clementa Pinckney
- Cynthia Hurd
- Sharonda Coleman-Singleton
- Tywanza Sanders
- Myra Thompson
- Baylee Almon
- Chase Smith
- Michael Fortier Jr.
- Lauren Townsend
- Cassie Bernall
- Rachel Scott
- Daniel Mauser
- Jessica Ghawi
- Veronica Moser-Sullivan (6 years old)
- Alison Parker
- Adam Ward
- Nicole Brown Simpson
- Ron Goldman
- Gabby Petito
- Laci Peterson
- Shanann Watts
- Bella Watts (4 years old)
- Celeste Watts (3 years old)
- Catherine Kraus
- Benjamin Larson
- Jack Pinto (6 years old)
- Noah Pozner (6 years old)
- Avielle Richman (6 years old)
- Ana Márquez-Greene (6 years old)
- Alaina Petty
- Jaime Guttenberg
- Meadow Pollack
- Helena Ramsay
- Joaquin Oliver
- Alyssa Alhadeff
- Gina Montalto
- Nicholas Dworet
- Carmen Schentrup
- Chris Hixon
- Aaron Feis
- Scott Beigel
- Sonny Melton
- Heather Alvarado
- Hannah Ahlers
- Brennan Stewart
- Carrie Parsons
- Dorene Anderson
- Angela Gomez
Hold up are you calling me a racist? Or are you saying that Trump is a racist? Because just to clarify I’m El Salvadoran. Also did you just name people that were murdered in America by Americans? Like Ted Bundy’s victims? Dude all over the world people from the same country kill people from their country That is nothing new. You’re saying because there’s American murderers that it makes it OK to also have an illegal immigrant murderers? Honestly I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make and quite frankly it’s pretty weird. Did you really say Ron Goldman the dude that Was banging OJ’s wife? lol. What the hell does this have to do with this conversation? You are literally the same people that say the jail in El Salvador is exactly like the holocaust, And do you understand how crazy that sounds comparing a jail that has literally people that have been found guilty for murder and rape to innocent Jewish people. Oh man
I called you dishonest. I said you committed the actions of a racist and bigot.
The point i made is very simple. Every citizen does not have to account for the murders of their fellow citizen. Just as every immigrant does not have to account for the murders of their fellow immigrants. To make that assertion is racist and bigoted. I even explained how the people on the list were chosen.
You also make assumptions about how i consider the prison. I don’t consider it “like the Holocaust” i consider it like a concentration camp. We shall see if they get around to mass executions.
Also this prison may contain people who have committed murder and rape. But to assign that to everyone who is in there is a category error. In the case of the person we are talking about, there was no finding he committed any crime. In fact he was abducted and detained without trial, which means he is innocent, until proven otherwise. He was not even accused by the trump administration of murder or rape. He was accused of being in a gang after the fact without evidence.
Statement: It’s good to have immigrants, it’s not good to have murderers.
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Dishonest American interlocutor,
When you cite a murder by ‘some illegal immigrant’ to justify the harm done to a completely unrelated, legally present individual, your justification does not discriminate. That’s collective punishment by nationality—by definition, bigoted and racist. I never called you those things; I called you dishonest. Your words speak for themselves.
It has been proven that he is a part of MS 13
Given that the previous sentence says the opposite, I can’t tell - is this a typo?
Also, what would change if they gave each gang member a trial and showcased their crimes before sending them off? Skipping due process and failing to share any evidence publicly smells very much like they were not actually criminals to me.
You’re right, we should use our biases and opinions about the nature of this situation based on sensationalist news instead of due process.
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