Or - and hear me out - we could castrate and render infertile every person who suggests the elimination of an entire breed so that they can’t spread their idiocy to their children.
If we could rely on every member of any sizable group of people to all reach even the lowest bar of decency, the world would be a very different place. Any solution that relies on the idea of “if everyone just does x” is not a real solution, as much as I’d like it to be.
Responsibility includes accounting for possible aggressive behavior :/
If you’re responsible for a chainsaw, you know to keep it oiled. You know to use it only in the correct environment, and you don’t have it anywhere near children.
So yes, you can responsibly own a pitbull. Responsibility is being responsible for a subject; its well being, its actions, and the consequences of its existence.
And yes, responsibility can overcome what 200 years of artificial selection at a rate of every 2 years has done. That is literally what responsibility is charged with.
If it was about weeding out the fight drive of the dogs, a lot of things could be done, without the need to drive the breed to extinction. Inside the pit bull gene pool there are two lines: the fighting dogs and the bait dogs. The last ones are those that display the lowest drive for fighting and aggression. There is nothing wrong with these animals except their lack of will to fight other dogs and this trait makes these animals less desirable to people breeding these dogs that know they can make good money by keeping the fight drive of the breed. These are the people that often show off dogs hanging from ropes off the ground, growling and twisting on it, to showcase the bite force of the animals.
Increase the frequency of theses individuals in breeding pools, weed out the naturally more feisty, and you can modify the race or any race very fast. Pugs and Yorkshire Terriers area two examples that come to mind of breeds that suffered radical changes on very short time spans because of aesthetic trends. No obstacle on doing the same thing to improve a breed for good reasons instead of shallow ones.
There are a good number of breeds out in the world much more dangerous than the Pit Bull. The Tosa Inu, which was specifically bred to be a fighting dog, the Presa Canario, also bred for fighting, the Rodesian Ridgeback, and many others. In the 90’s, Dobermans had the dirtiest reputation for being very dangerous. Nowadays, not so much.
So, your statement is misinformed.
note to mods: don’t like what I wrote, just give me a permanent ban and be done with.
First I like that you acknowledge there is a fight drive.
Second, so you’re discussing selective breeding to get it out, which is entirely different than people thinking you can coddle it out. You missed the entire conversation.
[…] you can’t overcome 200 years of artificial selection.
Is this you?
The way you put your argument, you seem to state there is no possible way to solve the issues this breed tends to show more propensity to exhibit. Selective breeding is one way and the best way to remove from the breed undesirable traits, as a root cause. But this does not mean it is the only one and extensive, structured, conscious training and conditioning, along with correct housing, can and will drastically reduce the risk of bad events. This breed is composed of individuals, which is often, conveniently, overlooked.
Pit Bulls are not exclusive to bad episodes with horrendous outcomes. Many other breeds are listed as controlled or banned, from country to country.
What Pit Bulls have against them that many have correctly stated is the tendency to attract the worst kind of humans.
My aunt has lived with two pitbulls for almost a decade now. Raised two small children in the same home. Nothing but sweethearts. Dogs are individuals, just like people. Just like having another person around your baby, you need to be responsible with any dog breed.
What’s the margin? Where do we draw the line between breeds that are okay to allow to reproduce and which aren’t? Pitbulls are statistically very safe, as all dogs are, when treated and trained well. If we banned everything with similar levels of risk of injury or death as pitbulls, we’d have to ban a LOT. Let’s start with guns, cars, and hell, why not smoking and drinking for legal guardians of children, too. In-ground swimming pools can go, and let’s revamp electrical outlets.
Obviously, it’s a sliding scale of propensity, probability, and likelihood, as you said, but pitbulls are much lower on that scale. Just as with everything else on that list, the risk of harm to others, especially children, falls on the responsibility of the owner. This isn’t to say “guns don’t kill people, people kill people,” as obviously guns enable easily killing many people quickly, but rather to contrast the realistic risk to family and community. Pitbulls have been excessively demonized for their relative risk. I can’t take anyone calling for pitbull bans seriously unless they believe in authoritatively banning all the other aspects of our lives that pose similar levels of risk to ourselves and others.
youre not going to get anybody to see the nuance. all pits bad 100%. even the good pits just didnt smell a good tasty kid yet. and the ones that did are just waiting for the perfect opportunity to strike. and also dont forget the racism involved with hating pit bulls
You’re missing the blindingly obvious solution that should be taken: spay and neuter them so that no new ones are bred.
Or - and hear me out - we could castrate and render infertile every person who suggests the elimination of an entire breed so that they can’t spread their idiocy to their children.
Hol’ up, there’s some sort of incongruity here that I can’t quite put my finger on…
You should be embarrassed to support eugenics.
r/whooooosh
Could you explain why you think they’re not serious?
I suspect they’re half-serious but both ironic and hyperbolic. Just seems the most likely.
Maybe? I hear shit like this for real all the time, even here.
Or, ya know, people could be responsible pet owners.
If we could rely on every member of any sizable group of people to all reach even the lowest bar of decency, the world would be a very different place. Any solution that relies on the idea of “if everyone just does x” is not a real solution, as much as I’d like it to be.
No amount of responsibility can overcome what 200 years of artificial selection at a rate of every 2 years.
Responsibility includes accounting for possible aggressive behavior :/ If you’re responsible for a chainsaw, you know to keep it oiled. You know to use it only in the correct environment, and you don’t have it anywhere near children.
So yes, you can responsibly own a pitbull. Responsibility is being responsible for a subject; its well being, its actions, and the consequences of its existence.
And yes, responsibility can overcome what 200 years of artificial selection at a rate of every 2 years has done. That is literally what responsibility is charged with.
You’re trying to twist and turn here. Accounting for? You can’t overcome it. I say again, you can’t overcome 200 years of artificial selection.
Yes, you can.
If it was about weeding out the fight drive of the dogs, a lot of things could be done, without the need to drive the breed to extinction. Inside the pit bull gene pool there are two lines: the fighting dogs and the bait dogs. The last ones are those that display the lowest drive for fighting and aggression. There is nothing wrong with these animals except their lack of will to fight other dogs and this trait makes these animals less desirable to people breeding these dogs that know they can make good money by keeping the fight drive of the breed. These are the people that often show off dogs hanging from ropes off the ground, growling and twisting on it, to showcase the bite force of the animals.
Increase the frequency of theses individuals in breeding pools, weed out the naturally more feisty, and you can modify the race or any race very fast. Pugs and Yorkshire Terriers area two examples that come to mind of breeds that suffered radical changes on very short time spans because of aesthetic trends. No obstacle on doing the same thing to improve a breed for good reasons instead of shallow ones.
There are a good number of breeds out in the world much more dangerous than the Pit Bull. The Tosa Inu, which was specifically bred to be a fighting dog, the Presa Canario, also bred for fighting, the Rodesian Ridgeback, and many others. In the 90’s, Dobermans had the dirtiest reputation for being very dangerous. Nowadays, not so much.
So, your statement is misinformed.
note to mods: don’t like what I wrote, just give me a permanent ban and be done with.
Top misinformation post of the month contender.
First I like that you acknowledge there is a fight drive.
Second, so you’re discussing selective breeding to get it out, which is entirely different than people thinking you can coddle it out. You missed the entire conversation.
Is this you?
The way you put your argument, you seem to state there is no possible way to solve the issues this breed tends to show more propensity to exhibit. Selective breeding is one way and the best way to remove from the breed undesirable traits, as a root cause. But this does not mean it is the only one and extensive, structured, conscious training and conditioning, along with correct housing, can and will drastically reduce the risk of bad events. This breed is composed of individuals, which is often, conveniently, overlooked.
Pit Bulls are not exclusive to bad episodes with horrendous outcomes. Many other breeds are listed as controlled or banned, from country to country.
What Pit Bulls have against them that many have correctly stated is the tendency to attract the worst kind of humans.
My aunt has lived with two pitbulls for almost a decade now. Raised two small children in the same home. Nothing but sweethearts. Dogs are individuals, just like people. Just like having another person around your baby, you need to be responsible with any dog breed.
It’s about propensity, probability, likelihood, etc.
What’s the margin? Where do we draw the line between breeds that are okay to allow to reproduce and which aren’t? Pitbulls are statistically very safe, as all dogs are, when treated and trained well. If we banned everything with similar levels of risk of injury or death as pitbulls, we’d have to ban a LOT. Let’s start with guns, cars, and hell, why not smoking and drinking for legal guardians of children, too. In-ground swimming pools can go, and let’s revamp electrical outlets.
Obviously, it’s a sliding scale of propensity, probability, and likelihood, as you said, but pitbulls are much lower on that scale. Just as with everything else on that list, the risk of harm to others, especially children, falls on the responsibility of the owner. This isn’t to say “guns don’t kill people, people kill people,” as obviously guns enable easily killing many people quickly, but rather to contrast the realistic risk to family and community. Pitbulls have been excessively demonized for their relative risk. I can’t take anyone calling for pitbull bans seriously unless they believe in authoritatively banning all the other aspects of our lives that pose similar levels of risk to ourselves and others.
You ask questions then rule out any answer* so I guess we’re done .
(*technically unless it meets x y z.)
deleted by creator
youre not going to get anybody to see the nuance. all pits bad 100%. even the good pits just didnt smell a good tasty kid yet. and the ones that did are just waiting for the perfect opportunity to strike. and also dont forget the racism involved with hating pit bulls