I have zero knowledge of the history or geopoliticial millieu there, I know there’s obviously lots of Ukrainians who speak both languages but not sure that translates to them wanting to necessarily join Russia per se.
Yes. The Donetsk and Luhansk separatist republics were created by pro-Russian Ukranians with Moscow’s backing. Russia officially annexed them in 2022.
It’s all a bit complicated though. You have ethnic Russians who consider themselves Russian despite being born within the borders of what we known as Ukraine. You also have many who were born in Soviet Ukraine prior to the collapse of the USSR in 1991 who still feel an affinity for Russia. And pro-Russian politics have existed for as long as independent Ukraine has.
My guess is that even if the war ended today and the borders returned to the pre-2014 borders, there would still be a pro-Russian insurgency in eastern Ukraine for a very long time.
Is there anyone who supports Russia who isnt actually on the ol payroll tho? Its almost like nobody actually wants what they “offer” and represent when it comes down to it other than paying them off
Native Russian speakers in Donbass.
Listen: the issue is about the IMF vs Russian banking. Has nothing to do with the will of the people.
Could you explain please
You have to go back to waaay back when. There was a dispute over how Ukraine was going to lean. On the one side they had austerity IMF loans on the other Russian banks saying maybe not so much, so really it’s a war among capitalists for market share. And of course resources, the breadbasket, the access to the black sea military shit. But mostly it’s the opportunity to sell off all the Ukrainian public resources and services to third party capitalists.
They’re a lot like american seperatists, but with a large bank roller behind them (russia).
That is indeed the case, it’s important to keep in mind that Ukraine was created by USSR out of parts of Russia, Poland, Hungary, and Romania. I highly recommend watching a lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. Mearsheimer is certainly not pro Russian in any sense, and he gives an objective analysis of the situation. Let’s take a look at some slides from the lecture here. First, here’s the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here’s how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
When modern-day Ukraine was formed in 1990, it was majority Ukrainian, but with a sizable Russian (and smaller Romanian and Polish) minority. Over the next twenty or so years, this minority voted for parties and politicians that favoured stronger ties with Russia. In contrast, ethnic Ukrainians supported joining (or at least aligning with) the EU. This conflict came to a head in 2014, when the pro-Russian government was overthrown by pro-EU protestors. Relations between the two groups have worsened since then, leading to pro-Russian militants seizing power in the (Russian majority) Donbass and Crimea, and joining Russia.
As much as they are still Nazis in the USA, yes.
So…like…60%?
Probably feels like that in the States right now, but it’s really a case of voter apathy and a vocal minority. In all politics, but especially in the States, the people who yell the loudest and longest hit the public awareness the most. And sadly, the more deranged and unlikely the things the nutjobs say the more it seems to strike a chord with people who are feeling disenfranchised by the government.
I don’t know if I buy voter apathy anymore. 1/3rd of the people I talk to voted 3rd party to “teach them a lesson” - fuckers taught nobody anything except the loss of democracy.
Google searches for “did biden drop out” and the like skyrocketed on election day.
It doesn’t seem like voter apathy, it seems like systemically curated stupidity and ignorance.
I think a lot of people are clinging on to this hope that “this isn’t really America” and “this doesn’t represent America”. I’m slowly coming to terms with the idea that maybe this is America and it is what America represents, and it is an ugly truth to swallow.
No, why would they? Haven’t you heard that Russia is literally Mordor filled with orcs, while Ukraine (especially under Zelensky’s rule) is a bastion of democracy? I don’t think that western governments/media and especially Zelensky (who doesn’t benefit at all from this war and is the main victim here) would lie to anyone about that!
Now that we got sarcasm out of the way…
If you want to form an informed opinion about it you can start by looking at the map of 2010 elections, where there was basically two candidates, a pro-EU one and pro-Russian one. Take a look at the distribution and percentage of people voting for a particular candidate in particular regions. Then look into the coup that happened in 2014, which powers participated in it (you can listen to their leaked conversations as well), then remember the electoral map you just looked at, and maybe make some conclusions.
That’s “before the invasion” the part.
“After the invasion” part is of course less clear, but again if you want to start making an informed opinion you can start by looking, for example, at the level of freedom people located on Ukraine controlled territories have and that of people on annexed by Russia territories (or just “Russia proper” territories). Who is free to leave at any moment and go anywhere, and who is forbidden to leave the country because the government needs cannon fodder? Who is encouraged to volunteer to join the army with monetary incentives, and who is kidnapped from the street, beaten, held in basements for days and forcefully sent to the meat grinder? Again, you can try to make some conclusions from that, and maybe speculate whether it’s possible that people from one of those groups may want to join the other one.
As a finishing touch - I am Ukrainian, I was born there, and lived most of my life there. Thankfully, I left the country before the war started. If I visit Ukraine - I will most likely be dead in a matter of months (after being kidnapped and beaten by the brave TCC guys). If I visit Russia - I will at most face more scrutiny at the border due to the war. I’m not from an eastern region of Ukraine and I never wanted it to become a part of Russia. You can try to guess which options are preferrable for me currently.
