Both can be true. The major US parties are both rotten to the core and as such the leadership of the democrats has much of the responsibility for this, but people not voting are still fascism enablers, albeit to a lesser degree than those voting for trump for non-fascism reasons.
Voting third party is one thing, it’s the only way outside of revolution you’re going to escape from the established two parties. Not voting only signals apathy and the only explicit statement is “I’m ok with whoever wins, including the raping racist hitler v2”.
Do me a favor pal: show me proof that it was leftists who didn’t vote this time. In fact, show me proof that the people who didn’t vote were against harm reduction. Show me any proof any evidence from ANYWHERE that the people who refused to vote… were refusing to vote? Show me any evidence that says that says anything with any certainty about ANYONE who did not vote?
Oh, you can’t? Well that makes sense, because we don’t actually KNOW who left the electorial arean. We don’t know WHY they left the electorial arena, and we don’t know WHAT they were thinking. So, I’d love to know why everyone seems so certain that it was the left who stopped voting entirely as opposed to the non-MAGA right or even the liberal center. And the reseaon everyone is CERTAIN it’s the left if because that’s been the reused talking point that’s been dragged out every time there’s been a lull in the insanity since Jan 20th. Almost like somebody doesn’t want the subject to die. Almost like someone profits off of the left and the center fighting each other instead of fighting the 1%.
People who stopped voting entirely may be facism enablers, I’m not disagreeing. But, there’s no actual, solid evidence to blame that shit on any one group in particular. And even despite that, it’s absolutely INSANE that we’re hyper focused on the imagined people we THINK didn’t vote for the reasons we think they didn’t vote, and yet IGNORE the people we KNOW voted for this and IGNORE the reasons they’re telling us they voted for this.
Like tf? Thinking billionaires have been and are continuing to demonize any actual progressive candidate and are propagandizing broad swaths of the electoral is an inane conspircay theory when it’s something we have seen evidence of time and time and time again, and in the same breath saying that people who voted for trump are lying about why they voted for trump based on ‘just trust me bro’ is absolutely ludicrous.
I never said it was the left lol, everything I said applies regardless of political leanings. Though in all likelihood there were at least some leftists that didn’t.
Also the commenters that were saying as much on this extremely left leaning platform are probably the ones mainly adressed by OP.
Oh yeah, for sure. At least some of the voters that didnt vote were lefties. My b if I took what you said the wrong way. But the thing that has been driving me insane the last 6 months is all the liberals who’ve been blaming the left up and down and blaming the voters while having 0 flame for the Washington establishment that is quite literally the reason why so many people have checked out of politics. Like, yeah, be mad at the people who didn’t vote, for sure. If that’s irritating you, that’s valid. As a leftist who did hold my nose and vote for Harris, I’m a little mad at the people who didn’t vote because it hurts minorities like myself and others. But to hyper fixate on the people that didn’t vote and brow beat them for not voting isn’t going to solve ANYTHING. They’ve shown us what it takes to get them back to the polls. Now we either gotta speak their language or die. Love it, hate it, doesn’t make a difference in the end. And being an ass about it isn’t going to make them go ‘Oh, wow, you’re totally right, lemme go vote next time’. If anything it’s going to split the left more (as is evidenced by this entire thread) and cause an irreversible spiral into fascism no matter if we have free and fair elections again or not.
Do me a favor pal: show me proof that it was leftists who didn’t vote this time. In fact, show me proof that the people who didn’t vote were against harm reduction. Show me any proof any evidence from ANYWHERE that the people who refused to vote… were refusing to vote? Show me any evidence that says that says anything with any certainty about ANYONE who did not vote?
Oh, you can’t? Well that makes sense, because we don’t actually KNOW who left the electorial arean. We don’t know WHY they left the electorial arena, and we don’t know WHAT they were thinking.
“Next, think back to your decision not to vote in 2024. You will see issues that some say may have impacted
their decision whether or not to vote. For each of those, please say how you feel about that issue.” And in every category, the data YOU provided shows that most people who didn’t vote WEREN’T GOING TO VOTE ANYWAY.
“This issue was important to me, and candidates positions on this issue swayed me not to vote.”
Gaza - 20% with 80% not being swayed or not caring about the issue that much.
Abortion Access - 22% with 78% not swayed/caring
Jobs - 14% with 86% not swayed/caring
Inflation - 25% with 75% not swayed/caring
Democracy and voting access - 15% with 85% not swayed/caring
Immigration - 21% with 79% not swayed/caring.
Climate change - 22% with 78% not swayed/caring
the issue which swayed most people NOT to vote wasn’t a lefty issue like gaza, climate change, or abortion access, it was IMMIGRATION, which is an issue literally everyone on the political spectrum cares about in some way shape or form. Furthermore, YOUR study that YOU linked is pretty clear that most people didn’t stop voting because they didn’t like the issues, it was because they don’t trust EITHER party to run the government.
“Neither party is trustworthy on this issue”
Economy - 38% compared to 31% for Dems and 18% for Repubs
Housing - 45% compared to 37% D and 8%R
Russia/Ukraine - 36% compared to 31D and 18R
Gaza - 49% compared to 18D and 16 R
Immigration 38% compared to 24D and 28R
Income inequality - 43% compared to 40D and 6R
Foreign threats - 38% compared to 25D and 21 R
In fact, the only times ANYONE is seen as more trustworthy than not on ANY issue is Climate Change and Healthcare.
“Next, think back to your decision not to vote in 2024. You will see issues that some say may have impacted their decision whether or not to vote. For each of those, please say how you feel about that issue.” And in every category, the data YOU provided shows that most people who didn’t vote WEREN’T GOING TO VOTE ANYWAY.
Holy fucking shit, are you being serious here? Are you literally incapable of parsing what you just quoted?
the issue which swayed most people NOT to vote wasn’t a lefty issue like gaza, climate change, or abortion access, it was IMMIGRATION, which is an issue literally everyone on the political spectrum cares about in some way shape or form.
… no, the issue was inflation, not immigration, by the numbers you literally quoted, but apparently can’t read. Furthermore, it was the most important issue by a whopping 3%, with ‘lefty issues’ like abortion, democracy, immigration, and climate change making up 61% of 2020 Biden voters who chose not to vote in 2024.
Furthermore, YOUR study that YOU linked is pretty clear that most people didn’t stop voting because they didn’t like the issues, it was because they don’t trust EITHER party to run the government.
What… what the ever-loving fuck do you think ‘not trusting’ a party on an issue means, exactly?
Christ. Do I have to hold your hand just to get you to read a paper?
I misread, sue me. Yeah it was inflation which is again an across the board issue. Again not a lefty issue. And yeah, lefty issues made up 60%, but nowhere in that paper did it state how much overlap between issues. Again, we don’t have the numbers to back it up, but I bet you all the money in my pocket versus all the money in your pockets that at least half of the people who reported that Gaza swayed their decision ALSO reported that climate change, and abortion swayed their vote. And nice try adding in immigration and democracy as ‘lefty issues’ as if they’re not ALSO across the board issues.
And not trusting a party on an issue is only really relevent if there’s only one or two issues that people don’t trust the party on. When people do not trust the party on 90% of the issues, they don’t trust the fucking party. Which is exactly why 62% of democrats want new leadership in the party and that’s just DEMOCRATS. Not even counting left leaning independents.
It would seem to be a very consistent pattern with you.
And yeah, lefty issues made up 60%, but nowhere in that paper did it state how much overlap between issues. Again, we don’t have the numbers to back it up, but I bet you all the money in my pocket versus all the money in your pockets that at least half of the people who reported that Gaza swayed their decision ALSO reported that climate change, and abortion swayed their vote.
The total is only 158%, so only half of the average respondents would only have been able to signify even a single other issue as important to their vote. This is called basic numeracy. They teach it in most schools.
And nice try adding in immigration and democracy as ‘lefty issues’ as if they’re not ALSO across the board issues.
… fucking what? Are you taking the piss right now?
And not trusting a party on an issue is only really relevent if there’s only one or two issues that people don’t trust the party on. When people do not trust the party on 90% of the issues, they don’t trust the fucking party. Which is exactly why 62% of democrats want new leadership in the party and that’s just DEMOCRATS. Not even counting left leaning independents.
And it’s more left-leaning leadership Democratic voters want, right?
Maybe operating with the same boggle-eyed religious conviction that Republicans do about the Silent Majority wherein everyone secretly agrees with you, and all evidence to the contrary is a liberal conspiracy, is a bad way to approach politics?
Both can be true. The major US parties are both rotten to the core and as such the leadership of the democrats has much of the responsibility for this, but people not voting are still fascism enablers, albeit to a lesser degree than those voting for trump for non-fascism reasons.
Voting third party is one thing, it’s the only way outside of revolution you’re going to escape from the established two parties. Not voting only signals apathy and the only explicit statement is “I’m ok with whoever wins, including the raping racist hitler v2”.
…people not voting is a failure of coalition-building, full-stop…
…meanwhile, a successful coalition is now calling the shots instead; that’s american democracy in action, like it or not…
Do me a favor pal: show me proof that it was leftists who didn’t vote this time. In fact, show me proof that the people who didn’t vote were against harm reduction. Show me any proof any evidence from ANYWHERE that the people who refused to vote… were refusing to vote? Show me any evidence that says that says anything with any certainty about ANYONE who did not vote?
Oh, you can’t? Well that makes sense, because we don’t actually KNOW who left the electorial arean. We don’t know WHY they left the electorial arena, and we don’t know WHAT they were thinking. So, I’d love to know why everyone seems so certain that it was the left who stopped voting entirely as opposed to the non-MAGA right or even the liberal center. And the reseaon everyone is CERTAIN it’s the left if because that’s been the reused talking point that’s been dragged out every time there’s been a lull in the insanity since Jan 20th. Almost like somebody doesn’t want the subject to die. Almost like someone profits off of the left and the center fighting each other instead of fighting the 1%.
People who stopped voting entirely may be facism enablers, I’m not disagreeing. But, there’s no actual, solid evidence to blame that shit on any one group in particular. And even despite that, it’s absolutely INSANE that we’re hyper focused on the imagined people we THINK didn’t vote for the reasons we think they didn’t vote, and yet IGNORE the people we KNOW voted for this and IGNORE the reasons they’re telling us they voted for this.
Like tf? Thinking billionaires have been and are continuing to demonize any actual progressive candidate and are propagandizing broad swaths of the electoral is an inane conspircay theory when it’s something we have seen evidence of time and time and time again, and in the same breath saying that people who voted for trump are lying about why they voted for trump based on ‘just trust me bro’ is absolutely ludicrous.
I never said it was the left lol, everything I said applies regardless of political leanings. Though in all likelihood there were at least some leftists that didn’t.
Also the commenters that were saying as much on this extremely left leaning platform are probably the ones mainly adressed by OP.
Oh yeah, for sure. At least some of the voters that didnt vote were lefties. My b if I took what you said the wrong way. But the thing that has been driving me insane the last 6 months is all the liberals who’ve been blaming the left up and down and blaming the voters while having 0 flame for the Washington establishment that is quite literally the reason why so many people have checked out of politics. Like, yeah, be mad at the people who didn’t vote, for sure. If that’s irritating you, that’s valid. As a leftist who did hold my nose and vote for Harris, I’m a little mad at the people who didn’t vote because it hurts minorities like myself and others. But to hyper fixate on the people that didn’t vote and brow beat them for not voting isn’t going to solve ANYTHING. They’ve shown us what it takes to get them back to the polls. Now we either gotta speak their language or die. Love it, hate it, doesn’t make a difference in the end. And being an ass about it isn’t going to make them go ‘Oh, wow, you’re totally right, lemme go vote next time’. If anything it’s going to split the left more (as is evidenced by this entire thread) and cause an irreversible spiral into fascism no matter if we have free and fair elections again or not.
Wouldn’t it be fascinating if there was an entire field of study dedicated to questions just like that? Unfortunately, no such thing exists, so we all get to rely on our gut feelings and whatever information passed around the circlejerk that makes us feel self-satisfied about our preconceptions
If there’s one thing that Lemmy has taught me, it’s that people on the left aren’t any smarter than those on the right. Just less vile.
“Next, think back to your decision not to vote in 2024. You will see issues that some say may have impacted their decision whether or not to vote. For each of those, please say how you feel about that issue.” And in every category, the data YOU provided shows that most people who didn’t vote WEREN’T GOING TO VOTE ANYWAY.
“This issue was important to me, and candidates positions on this issue swayed me not to vote.” Gaza - 20% with 80% not being swayed or not caring about the issue that much.
Abortion Access - 22% with 78% not swayed/caring
Jobs - 14% with 86% not swayed/caring
Inflation - 25% with 75% not swayed/caring
Democracy and voting access - 15% with 85% not swayed/caring
Immigration - 21% with 79% not swayed/caring.
Climate change - 22% with 78% not swayed/caring
the issue which swayed most people NOT to vote wasn’t a lefty issue like gaza, climate change, or abortion access, it was IMMIGRATION, which is an issue literally everyone on the political spectrum cares about in some way shape or form. Furthermore, YOUR study that YOU linked is pretty clear that most people didn’t stop voting because they didn’t like the issues, it was because they don’t trust EITHER party to run the government.
“Neither party is trustworthy on this issue”
Economy - 38% compared to 31% for Dems and 18% for Repubs
Housing - 45% compared to 37% D and 8%R
Russia/Ukraine - 36% compared to 31D and 18R
Gaza - 49% compared to 18D and 16 R
Immigration 38% compared to 24D and 28R
Income inequality - 43% compared to 40D and 6R
Foreign threats - 38% compared to 25D and 21 R
In fact, the only times ANYONE is seen as more trustworthy than not on ANY issue is Climate Change and Healthcare.
Holy fucking shit, are you being serious here? Are you literally incapable of parsing what you just quoted?
… no, the issue was inflation, not immigration, by the numbers you literally quoted, but apparently can’t read. Furthermore, it was the most important issue by a whopping 3%, with ‘lefty issues’ like abortion, democracy, immigration, and climate change making up 61% of 2020 Biden voters who chose not to vote in 2024.
What… what the ever-loving fuck do you think ‘not trusting’ a party on an issue means, exactly?
Christ. Do I have to hold your hand just to get you to read a paper?
I misread, sue me. Yeah it was inflation which is again an across the board issue. Again not a lefty issue. And yeah, lefty issues made up 60%, but nowhere in that paper did it state how much overlap between issues. Again, we don’t have the numbers to back it up, but I bet you all the money in my pocket versus all the money in your pockets that at least half of the people who reported that Gaza swayed their decision ALSO reported that climate change, and abortion swayed their vote. And nice try adding in immigration and democracy as ‘lefty issues’ as if they’re not ALSO across the board issues.
And not trusting a party on an issue is only really relevent if there’s only one or two issues that people don’t trust the party on. When people do not trust the party on 90% of the issues, they don’t trust the fucking party. Which is exactly why 62% of democrats want new leadership in the party and that’s just DEMOCRATS. Not even counting left leaning independents.
It would seem to be a very consistent pattern with you.
The total is only 158%, so only half of the average respondents would only have been able to signify even a single other issue as important to their vote. This is called basic numeracy. They teach it in most schools.
… fucking what? Are you taking the piss right now?
And it’s more left-leaning leadership Democratic voters want, right?
… right…?
Maybe operating with the same boggle-eyed religious conviction that Republicans do about the Silent Majority wherein everyone secretly agrees with you, and all evidence to the contrary is a liberal conspiracy, is a bad way to approach politics?