cross-posted from: https://linux.community/post/3355635
long post
I’m reading “A Field Guide to Earthlings, An autistic Asperger view of neurotypical behavior” by Ian Ford, one of the final patterns: Why you will generally lose.
If you scroll back my history you’ll find some posts where most of you believe I am on the spectrum.
I haven’t been diagnosed: Where I am it is extremely difficult to find a decent psychiatrist to do a test that would be several days long, are several miles away and have long waiting lists, but I do believe am on the spectrum. It’s like the book I’m reading describes me. I really don’t get neurotypicals and why won’t they leave me alone, specially when I do leave them alone.
Back to the book: “Even if we could give up our strengths and go to the basest level of NTs in some areas (for example, abandoning our love of accuracy), that would still not enable us to adopt their strengths, such as sensory integration, and we probably would not be able to memorize their constantly-changing culture. So in that sense it is hopeless.”
This is me. I love accuracy and I find NTs illogical, emotional and sometimes backstabbing, lacking authenticity. I like authenticity. It’s also very tiring having to constantly guess what the person I talk to is going to understand of my message: the message itself or some odd interpretation of it that somehow attacks his self esteem. So tiring.
I’ve been accused behind my back of being manipulative, uncaring, rude, and also a sociopath. Once this impression is given, it is impossible to make people change their minds, including management. I usually don’t fight it because, really, fighting gossip? that’s sticking to 5 year old level politics and what’s the point? The book I mentioned says enemies who don’t fight will lose, but it’s so tiring fighting every stupid thing (most of?) my coworkers think I am.
I don’t know.
Then there is how most society constructs us: as people who WILLINGLY decide to want to be left alone and act antisocial, who feel above everyone else who NEED to be either ignored or must be molded to fit in, even if that’s something they don’t want, because that’s what’s good for them, just because that’s the extroverted neurotypical norm. They don’t see introversion and solitude as self caring, but as depression, being an ass and being antisocial.
I’m living exactly this at the workplace and I hate it: I’m seen as robotic for doing exactly the same thing others do, but because they talk about inane stuff with management, they are automatically better than me. They never see me as solution oriented, eager to learn or concentrated on doing the task at hand. I’m always the odd one that lacks potential.
“If it is a setting where people are trying to be live up to high moral standards, you might just be the target of rumors; in groups with lower standards, the eviction or shunning could be more open and forceful. In either case, you lose.”
yup. I always lose.
If you’re a neurotypical and now you suggest this is my fault, I’m overreacting, it’s not so difficult to do small talk, if I can YOU must can, and I have to fake being an extroverted ass, get bent. Would you change your whole personality just because society dictates you must? Could you live with yourself?
But, if conforming to a neurotypical extroverted model is out of the question, how do I live the rest of my life?
I don’t mean the question as a financial one: I’m a RN quitting bedside who applied and got a job moving oxygen dependent patients that require monitoring between wards, so at least I’m not unemployed, don’t have to deal with entitled patients complaining about cold coffee, not good looking cushions, lack of tv, what’s good to have sex with women… I’ve been promised uninterrupted 30 minute pauses and no night shifts. Hope it’s not a case of the grass is greener…
It’s about what to think about society, because I always expected people to mind their business and leave me alone (because I leave them alone, I don’t bother them), I never expected them to be this hostile.
My logical step now would be to become a misanthrope, but I don’t know if that would be good or bad. It’s not like I have a high opinion of mankind anyways.
The question: How do I live the rest of my life?
You must ask yourself, how did I manage to get to where I am today.
Reading your post, you say you have not been diagnosed.
The spectrum today, in comparson to 20 years ago has expanded exponentially from the original.
Personally, I think an introvert could get a diagnosis.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You are a human being, you are not a Label or a position on a spectrum.
There is no perfect human being, we are all different, not one of us is a diagnoses. That is why we are given names at birth.
I dont know anyone called, adhd, autistic, psychotic or depressed.
Diagnoses are what the medical profession likes to use to label us and put us in little boxes.
The rest of the world see each one of us as some random human walking down the street.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
During my psychotherapy undergraduate years at University, my peers and I did an experiment.
The experiment was to challenge the status quo, and assess how easy it was to get a diagnoses and get a prescription.
So being your typical, annoying under grads, a few of us. including me, went to our respective doctors and complained about; feeling down, unable to sleep, not eating very well, and extremely stressed because of the work load at university.
My GP referred me to see a psychiatrist at my local hospital. I was diagnosed with clinical depression and generalised anxiety disorder (GAD) with a likelihood of a personality disorder.
He prescribed me the anti-depressant Mirtazapine and pregabalin for the anxiety.
Obviously, I was healthy 30 year old and didn’t go the the chemist to get my prescription. I also told my doctor so he could remove any referrences to mental ill health added to my medical history.
We knew it was a stupid thing to do, but it did give us lots to think about, regarding the state of attaining a medical diagnoses, being prescribed unnecessary drugs and being given labels.
By the way, psychotherapists dont label people.
Learn to accept discomfort. Get a shrink too. Get over yourself.
Seriously. Humans live in tribes. You may feel like an alien, but you’re not. You’re just another human, and you’re not better than the people who annoy you. If you want to be a misanthrope start with yourself, but self-compassion is better for you and everyone else. If you want to solve the problem of your discomfort, recognize that the problem is inside you. Your body, and how your mind interprets it.
Well, you are on the spectrum, so what? You learn to communicate, set and hold boundaries, and be kind to yourself. Something every other person should learn too… Surround yourself with people who respects you - just like every one else should. That’s about it…
Is it always easy? No, but it’s worth it. You can have deeper and more lasting connections than the general person will experience.
deleted by creator
Very strugglely, trust me
I’m in my 50s, always feel like an alien, and still think I’m 19yo. Was diagnosed with "Asperger’s (known as HFA os ASD mostly these days) about 10 years ago.
You will never not feel this way, but I see it like we’re playing the world on hard mode so every success means so much more to me.
You have to constantly work on your mental health and general attitude to life. Try to prioritise what is actually important so you can let the other (NT bullshit) stuff go. And watch out for the signs you are getting too comfortable and are about to get things wrong. Bottom line for me is to never give up, you can learn how to get on in life.
I’m guessing that wasn’t what you wanted to hear.
We each have different challenges. I decided years ago to try to understand people like I understand machines. It has mostly worked for me.
I’m in my 50s, always feel like an alien, and still think I’m 19yo.
don’t let anyone take your inner child away. Don’t let society change this about you.
I’m guessing that wasn’t what you wanted to hear.
it’s ok, the book is already helpful. At this point I have no expectations about society anymore. It’s survival mechanisms what interest me.
It’s just gradual improvement and creativity. This means just tackle each problem individually, whenever you have the strength to, and solve it in a way that works for you, because “traditional” solutions likely won’t work for you.
It’s essentially “keep fighting” but expressed in a way that it isn’t really a fight, you can do this improvement relaxed as well.
For example, I’ve at some time adjusted my field of work to be 100% remote, and now I’m seeing how to change even that. I’ve eliminated Interactions with undesired people almost completely.
I’ve at some time adjusted my field of work to be 100% remote, and now I’m seeing how to change even that. I’ve eliminated Interactions with undesired people almost completely.
then “all” I have to do is to keep looking for jobs where I almost never interact with people…
It’s a spectrum, everyone’s on it. You just have to keep doing what you’re doing, and don’t end up a fascist. The bar is pretty low. Keep eating, stay hydrated.
I’m training myself to spend more time doing what makes me happy, and less of what I have generally expected of myself. I read a whole book last week.
I don’t have a full answer, unfortunately.
My own experience - people as individuals are way more tolerable than in groups. My best jobs were where I could work with kids or work 1-on-1 with others, with a task based focus. Dynamics and politics are hell.
It’s much harder in most of the work world, especially in the field you’re in it seems, but if you can find some other neurodivergent folks (even one or two) to surround yourself with it’ll help keep the full misanthropy at bay.
I do my best to prioritize downtime and personal mental health outside of that as another extra barrier against the rot that is “NT” society. I’m not sure even neurotypicals like what’s expected socially, to be honest.
At the end of the day, even though it may seem like it otherwise, you’re not alone. Introversion/nerdiness/autism isn’t as horrendously rare or bad as extroverts make it out to be, and many those of us like you have similar feelings. Sometimes remembering there are other humans like you and you do have some kindred spirits out there, somewhere, can bite that despair back just a bit.
Godspeed in the meantime.
They demand authenticity and complain that people express emotions in the same sentence.
The whole post can be summarized as “Life would be so much better if other people’s thoughts and behaviours were organized around me and my preferences”.
I understand this person by no fault of their own struggles more to muster up the patience you need to deal with being just one person among billions. But the idea that they’re completely alone in this, and therefore utterly victimised by depending on society to exist, is patently false and apparently born from a diminished capacity for empathy.
They demand authenticity and complain that people express emotions in the same sentence.
wait, you are right. My coworkers are authentic and they get along among themselves, whereas my way of being authentic seems to be the complete opposite. They are authentic being silly, loud and childish, I am authentic reading a book and not yapping.
We are simply incompatible. I mean its sad people believe a workplace is like an elementary school, but, what can I do to change it? Nothing. I’m glad I’m leaving. In future, I’ll look for jobs where I don’t have to endure silly people like this, a work with as less human contact as possible, or at least with no needy patients that demand you listen to their rants and become their therapist for 4 hours per shift. God I hate that.
The whole post can be summarized as “Life would be so much better if other people’s thoughts and behaviours were organized around me and my preferences”.
while true, I’d suggest ‘Life would be so much better if other people’s thoughts were left unsaid and coworkers let me work’
this is a chance to start looking for better fitting jobs.
Yeah every single one of your coworkers is childish on an elementary school level, sure. You either work with a ton of real weirdos, or more likely are way overemphasizig to get people to take your complaints more seriously.
Your perception of yourself and your coworkers is not as objective and devoid of emotion as you think. Doubling down on the derisive condescension isn’t helping your case in this - there are many different emotions. But I definitely agree that looking for a different job that doesn’t involve hours of social interactions with patients and co-workers is a good idea. Best of luck.
Yeah every single one of your coworkers is childish on an elementary school level, sure.
I guess I should’ve written ‘my coworkers sometimes behave like elementary school children’ which is every time they have nothing to do. This is what I feel. I guess to them, they ain’t being childish but engaging. To me it still feels childish.
You either work with a ton of real weirdos, or more likely are way overemphasizig to get people to take your complaints more seriously.
I don’t believe I’m overemphasizing. This is how perceive reality. And I haven’t even started with the patient population
Your perception of yourself and your coworkers is not as objective and devoid of emotion as you think.
you are right, everything I wrote is how I perceive reality, which is, mostly subjective, but to me it still feels objective, if that makes sense. I don’t believe my post (the one that started the thread) is objective, it’s how I perceive my coworkers.
My producer does an almost strict carnivore diet, as plants do NOT treat those with autism very well. That he’s learned from experience, sadly.
🤚Quick sidebar: what are talking about when you say “my producer”?
Neigsendoig Cocules (who goes by Sendo) is my producer, and he owns Cocules Media (formerly Cocules Industries Spy Network entertainment group), in whom I did video editing for, roughly 2 or 3 years.
Honestly not the answer I was expecting. Thanks for clarifying.
I know people on the spectrum that are vegan in my life and they are doing just fine. There are also famous vegans on the spectrum such as Greta Thunberg. People with autism often have greater senses of justice and because of that might gravitate towards veganism.
That could be due to what they choose to eat. However, over time, plants can have some wild health effects that even autistic people would notice. That’s why my producer, Neigsendoig, sometimes does a form of Dr. Berg’s Keto without the cow’s milk whenever he misses nutrients.
Autistic vegan who used to shit herself whenever she ingested animal fat over here. My digestive system is happier than ever since I stopped eating animal products many years ago.
Also an autistic vegan here! I’d wager that the % of autistic people in the vegan community is higher than in the general population. I didn’t do it for any health reasons, but going vegan was a nice way to find out I’m lactose intolerant and food isn’t supposed to hurt.
Yeah, between the strong sense of fairness, textural sensitivities, and the tendency towards consistent foods (1), I would expect autistic people to be more commonly vegan than the general population.
- I don’t know how to describe this, but I tend to seek out a couple easily prepared/stored foods I enjoy that combine to make a well balanced diet and only eat those for months/years at a time. Though my husband would spontaneously combust if I did that now (not a complaint, he cooks lovely food for us every night and enjoys doing it), before we met, I went for years eating oatmeal with raisins and almonds for every breakfast and beans and rice (mixing up the ingredients with each batch to cover vitamin deficiencies) for every lunch and dinner. I was very poor, but I’d be lying if I said it was a difficult sacrifice to make.
I also didn’t go vegan for health reasons and my doctor and I were just happily surprised that my gallbladder issues resolved themselves without surgery, lol. I wonder how common that is.
I understand if people are unable to tolerate animal fat due to a health issue requiring plants to fix it. However, my producer and I are the opposite, as we do consume plants in moderation.
You might be the opposite, but that’s not universal.
