“Being born in the wrong body” is a phrase used to simplify a fairly complex situation in a way that also makes it seem like to trans people it’s a metaphysical belief about the nature of the the soul. This is by and large incorrect. What trans people experience isn’t delusion. Delusion relies on a belief that contradicts reality or relies on the very shaky ground of the insubstantiated supernatural. What trans people experience is an uncontrolled mental reaction to physical replicatable stimuli to their own bodies. All the cultural stuff is in service to this.
For example - When you call a trans man a woman - what that person is reacting to is your perception of their body making them ground in that physical discomfort. It is like if you had a physical feature you despised, say a physical deformation with a traumatic memory attached, and people kept remarking on it in conversation. While you might be able to walk the world happily temporarily forgetting it exists someone remarking on it is like shoving a mirror in your face. This is why misgendering doesn’t have to be intentional to be hurtful.
Our culture has a lot of cultural protections built in for people who have deformaties through birth or accident because we understand universally the effect those things have on the psyche. It’s impolite to stare, to mention or exclude people with those features. Gender however is harmless for about 98% of the population. It’s remarked upon in the form of pronouns in every conversation where three or more people participate. This is ultimately why that saying "trans women are woman (etc.) " exists. It’s not them saying that trans people have any misunderstandings or delusions about the history of their bodies or how they differ from cis women. They have no delusions, they are painfully aware, at all times, exactly how they differ. What that saying is trying to convey is that a trans person should not be treated or categorized by society any differently than cis people of that gender or should be accommodated for being treated as neither gender.
This is also why surgeries are often employed. It’s in part to gain unwitting compliance from a population who reacts to physical sex characteristics and pairs that with gender. It’s mending how people react to themselves in the mirror as much as it is removing the mirror from the hands of other people. What the removal of the disorder portion of the DSM was about was an acknowledgement that this problem is cultural. It is as much a problem with society’s constructions and beliefs around sex and gender as it is a singular person’s problem. Just as being gay is only a problem if society responds to it as an undesirable characteristic the issues with being trans are exacerbated by cultural sorting of gender into exclusive categories and people’s personal ick about people’s surgical and hormonal personal autonomy around their bodies.
The reason trans people have to frame their fight primarily as medically nessisary intervention is largely because of cis people’s squeamishness causing them issues of lack of personal freedom to choose how to personally navigate a society not built to manage their specific personal struggles around their physical sex. The problem with society isn’t going anywhere most places yet so the individual is assuming the burdens of that and it’s well proven that those experiencing this issue are tackling that issue in thoughtful, logic based ways with proven ability to accurately judge risk and reward of their choices on that front.
Out of curiosity, if you woke up tomorrow in the body of the opposite sex, how do you think you would feel or act on this in the long term? Like through magic, or alien science. Like in those 80s body swap movies, just permanent. Can you imagine that?
Personally I think I would just adapt. I’m a straight male and perfectly comfortable and like being a male, but I think I’d just live as a lesbian women then. It would be challenging and weird and people would see me differently, but it would also be intellectually interesting.
I recently realized that this makes me more gender-fluid than most trans people. Basically they might be more bonded to a concept of a specific gender than even the majority of people. And that is why it’s hard to imagine what they are going through, and hard to emphasize. If I imagine I’d have grown up as a girl I’d be perfectly comfortable as that too.
I like science fiction and consider myself a transhumanist, someone who believes that we should gain advanced bodies with full control over them, and e.g. change sex or appearance without needing surgery. Like if you could spend a year as a opposite sex without having to suffer and bleed for it, why wouldn’t you do it, even just to gain insight.
I don’t think you can make any argument saying that a human is sick just for strongly preferring or needing to be one gender. I don’t understand this need either, and think what lengths some people to is weird and some results questionable, but I can’t say they are wrong. There is an infinite number of ways a human mind can be. Why do you think it’s a mental illness?
Also, if you imagine a future where you could turn “flawlessly” into the opposite sex, and change back too, do you still think it would be a mental illness?
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You’re absolutely right. Let me get Hippocrates on the line, warn him of these dangerous ‘surgeon’ quacks waving their knives about.
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DSM also thought being gay was a mental disorder. Caving to pressure is sometimes a good thing.
Can you think of any other things that were previously classified as mental disorders but no longer are?
Maybe that’s not a fair question, maybe I’m just being hysterical.
“Being born in the wrong body” is a phrase used to simplify a fairly complex situation in a way that also makes it seem like to trans people it’s a metaphysical belief about the nature of the the soul. This is by and large incorrect. What trans people experience isn’t delusion. Delusion relies on a belief that contradicts reality or relies on the very shaky ground of the insubstantiated supernatural. What trans people experience is an uncontrolled mental reaction to physical replicatable stimuli to their own bodies. All the cultural stuff is in service to this.
For example - When you call a trans man a woman - what that person is reacting to is your perception of their body making them ground in that physical discomfort. It is like if you had a physical feature you despised, say a physical deformation with a traumatic memory attached, and people kept remarking on it in conversation. While you might be able to walk the world happily temporarily forgetting it exists someone remarking on it is like shoving a mirror in your face. This is why misgendering doesn’t have to be intentional to be hurtful.
Our culture has a lot of cultural protections built in for people who have deformaties through birth or accident because we understand universally the effect those things have on the psyche. It’s impolite to stare, to mention or exclude people with those features. Gender however is harmless for about 98% of the population. It’s remarked upon in the form of pronouns in every conversation where three or more people participate. This is ultimately why that saying "trans women are woman (etc.) " exists. It’s not them saying that trans people have any misunderstandings or delusions about the history of their bodies or how they differ from cis women. They have no delusions, they are painfully aware, at all times, exactly how they differ. What that saying is trying to convey is that a trans person should not be treated or categorized by society any differently than cis people of that gender or should be accommodated for being treated as neither gender.
This is also why surgeries are often employed. It’s in part to gain unwitting compliance from a population who reacts to physical sex characteristics and pairs that with gender. It’s mending how people react to themselves in the mirror as much as it is removing the mirror from the hands of other people. What the removal of the disorder portion of the DSM was about was an acknowledgement that this problem is cultural. It is as much a problem with society’s constructions and beliefs around sex and gender as it is a singular person’s problem. Just as being gay is only a problem if society responds to it as an undesirable characteristic the issues with being trans are exacerbated by cultural sorting of gender into exclusive categories and people’s personal ick about people’s surgical and hormonal personal autonomy around their bodies.
The reason trans people have to frame their fight primarily as medically nessisary intervention is largely because of cis people’s squeamishness causing them issues of lack of personal freedom to choose how to personally navigate a society not built to manage their specific personal struggles around their physical sex. The problem with society isn’t going anywhere most places yet so the individual is assuming the burdens of that and it’s well proven that those experiencing this issue are tackling that issue in thoughtful, logic based ways with proven ability to accurately judge risk and reward of their choices on that front.
This guy mansplains to doctors.
Ok buddy. Would you like some crayons to munch on while you go through life wondering why nobody likes you?
Out of curiosity, if you woke up tomorrow in the body of the opposite sex, how do you think you would feel or act on this in the long term? Like through magic, or alien science. Like in those 80s body swap movies, just permanent. Can you imagine that?
Personally I think I would just adapt. I’m a straight male and perfectly comfortable and like being a male, but I think I’d just live as a lesbian women then. It would be challenging and weird and people would see me differently, but it would also be intellectually interesting.
I recently realized that this makes me more gender-fluid than most trans people. Basically they might be more bonded to a concept of a specific gender than even the majority of people. And that is why it’s hard to imagine what they are going through, and hard to emphasize. If I imagine I’d have grown up as a girl I’d be perfectly comfortable as that too.
I like science fiction and consider myself a transhumanist, someone who believes that we should gain advanced bodies with full control over them, and e.g. change sex or appearance without needing surgery. Like if you could spend a year as a opposite sex without having to suffer and bleed for it, why wouldn’t you do it, even just to gain insight.
I don’t think you can make any argument saying that a human is sick just for strongly preferring or needing to be one gender. I don’t understand this need either, and think what lengths some people to is weird and some results questionable, but I can’t say they are wrong. There is an infinite number of ways a human mind can be. Why do you think it’s a mental illness?
Also, if you imagine a future where you could turn “flawlessly” into the opposite sex, and change back too, do you still think it would be a mental illness?
That’s actually a pretty good argument.