Bernie Sanders has been repeatedly uttering the phrase “Israel has a right to defend itself” on his “Fighting Oligarchy” tour with Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, which in the year 2025 can only be interpreted as blatant genocide apologia.

Israel does not have “a right to defend itself” against an occupied population in a giant concentration camp. Under international law it has a right to end the occupation, and that’s it. “Israel has a right to defend itself” is just a slogan people say when they want to justify supplying an ongoing genocide.

Sanders has been mixing his support for Israel in with periodic criticisms of Netanyahu and the Israeli government’s actions in Gaza, always taking care to make his criticisms about the behavior of Israel’s current leadership and not the nature of the racist apartheid state itself.

Sanders is doing this for two reasons. Firstly, he is working to galvanize a big tent inclusive coalition of Democrats in opposition to Trump, and he wants that big tent to include people who think genocide is bad and people who think genocide is fine. He doesn’t want to offend the pro-genocide liberals.

Secondly, Sanders is doing this because he himself is a Zionist. Like other liberal Zionists, Bernie Sanders upholds a vision of an Israel that has never, ever existed: one which remains an ethnostate dominated by Jews, but which conducts itself in a kind and just manner, without constantly murdering and abusing Palestinians.

This iteration of the state of Israel is a fiction. An imaginary fantasyland, like Narnia. Everything about Israel is stacked against the possibility of such a status quo ever emerging, and Israel has always done everything it can to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state. By pretending it is possible to have the Zionist entity and also have peace and justice, liberal Zionists help manufacture public consent for continuing to feed weapons to the genocidal apartheid state of Israel.

    • kreskin@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      Instigators of conflict dont get to claim self defense.

      Thats well established across most of the world’s legal frameworks. Also, oppressed peoples are entitled to rebel, even armed rebellion. Thats in the UN charter and the universal declaration of human rights in addition to international humanitarian law. When the US signs treaties – like the founding of the UN, they become bound by those within US law.

      Israel was founded using irgun terrorism (no one debates this, not even the zionists) and so should never have been founded, and does not have any inherent right to continue to exist in its current form. War crimes regimes must be ended for basic human dignity to exist. The site Israel sits on should be either returned to the remainder of the Ottoman empire, or given back to the UN to be arbitrated by the world-- after the veto has been removed from the UN charter, of course. The world has moved past the existing security council and the seven permanenet members cant be trusted with veto power.

      If Bernie cant agree with this then things have to change. Progressives arent a member of Bernie, Bernie is a member of progressives, and he doesnt own the brand, we collectively do. He follows the basic tenets of progressivism whether he agrees to them or not, or he gets the boot. Political parties have tolerated cult of personality rebellions with the party platform way too much, which is what brought us to this crisis. Bernie needs to bend to progressivism or be thanked for his service and ejected.

    • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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      9 days ago

      What does it matter what I believe?

      For what it’s worth Israeli’s should have a home. That doesn’t mean I support current Israeli government policies, settlers, genocide, concentration camps, murdering civilians, murdering medics, murdering the press, or war crimes.

      The fact that you asked this question leads me to think you have a naive view of the world and think a simple question can give you insight.

      • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOP
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        9 days ago

        If you support the existence of Israel you are a Zionist. That is the definition of Zionism. Israelis can have a home outside of occupied Palestine. This simple question gets right to the root of the issue and weeds out all the neoliberals.

        Your naive world view on letting politicians support a genocide without pushback is what is is simple. It does not matter Bernie is support genocide less than the rest of American politicians. He should be not supporting it whatsoever. And stop saying Israel has the right to defend itself.

            • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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              8 days ago

              Yeah cause I haven’t conversed with this clown across a couple of days and there crazy generalisations, fitting that you would come in and generalise people too. Well done.

              • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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                8 days ago

                You’re threatening physical assault against people for opposing genocide, poor baby whining about “generalising”

                • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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                  8 days ago

                  I said I would have hit them for calling me a Nazi and a Zionist.

                  Are you as dense as them that you can’t see I have also been opposing a genocide, it’s just I’m doing it with a little more nuance than the other clown.

                  • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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                    8 days ago

                    Ah yes, the nuance of threatening physical violence and showering everyone who disagrees with you with insults

            • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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              9 days ago

              You think we’ve not had these discussions before?

              Let me ask you this, do you believe all Jews in Israel are zionists? Or do you believe that it is the government in power?

              Much the same as the USA, not where I am from, do you believe everybody supports Trump?

              • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOP
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                9 days ago

                Your question should be

                Much the same as the USA, not where I am from, do you believe everybody supports Trump the existence of the USA?

                And the answer to that is going to be a more than 99% yes.

                Similarly more than 99% of the Jews in Israel are Zionists.

                There are Liberal Zionists like Bernie Sanders or right wingers like Marco Rubio (which Bernie Sanders voted to confirm) in Israel as well. But they all believe in an ethnostate based on Jewish supremacy.

                  • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOP
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                    9 days ago

                    95% of them support the genocide what the hell are you on about

                    More than 60% straight up admit they want to kill every last Palestinian

                    Polling data from the Agam Institute suggests that some 60% of Israeli Jews oppose allowing humanitarian aid into Gaza. That is, 60% of Jewish Israelis believe all 2.2 million people in Gaza should die of dehydration and starvation.

                    It is telling that you believe Israelis are not literal Nazis. They are literal Nazis. Get it through your head already. They live in Israel of course they are Zionists. There are extremely few dissidents such as Gideon Levy actively opposing Israel. Gideon has made that very clear in his videos.