The sad thing is that a good amount of these guys aren’t actually working for the state. A lot of them are actually immigrants who left Russia for more opportunities, but are still rampant nationalist attempting to damage the countries that gave them a new home.
Well the Republican party doesn’t have 3rd way and centrist politicians who like to make any excuse to cooperate with the opposition.
3rd way politics is was got us into this mess, and at this point the people who still advocate for “bi-partisanship” are either incredibly stupid or just conservative plants.
Yeah… What they tend to leave out is that anywhere from 100-250k people in Ukraine fought with the Nazi, while anywhere from 6-7 million Ukrainians fought against them, and had some of the hardest fighting on the eastern front.
think he’s accelerating the decline of the US empire. And I think a new multipolar world with China taking on a leading role will emerge shortly. Within a few years at latest.
Thinking of geopolitics as a polarity is a way to make a complex subject more digestible, however when it’s examined against actual history its highly reductive.
Even when the world was less complicated and communist nations weren’t a hodgepodge of mixed markets, nothing was delineated so cleanly into something as simple as multipolarism.
Democratic capitalist nations still overthrew emerging capitalist democracies, communist nations still went to war with other communist nations. I think it’s a bit optimistic to believe that political and economic instability inexplicably births unity.
true, Putin tried to join NATO once, to join the imperialism club, but the US rejected Russia
They never made an official application, Putin wanted to be invited.
because the US wanted (and still wants) Russia Balkanized and re-plundered instead.
“a small but growing lobby in Europe and the United States making the case for the break-up of the Russian Federation. Their main argument is that Putin’s denial of Ukraine’s right to exist proves that the Russian state is irredeemable imperialist”
Kinda an underwhelming theory considering your article is talking about a small group reacting to very modern imperialism, not a scheme from the early 00s to deny Russia NATO membership, especially when they were made a permanent joint council.
Russia has figured out that it’s better off allying with Global South countries than attempting imperialist adventures upon them
Ahh yes, famous liberators like…bashar al-assad.
The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World
And notice how none of those “sources” are before 2014, and especially not before 2008. It’s almost like there’s a modern push to reinterpret the dangers of NATO.
NATO is imperialist and I’m not a fan of it, however post Soviet dissolution it wasn’t ever enough of an actual threat to validate invading Ukraine, Georgia, or sponsoring the other break away factions in their neighbors back yard.
I’ll leave it at that, because I don’t think you’re arguing in good faith, and you’ve already said you aren’t a socialist, so I’m guessing by our just a Russian nationalist and I’m wasting my time.
Just the small problem of thousands of murdered eastern Ukrainians, and the Ukrainian state’s efforts to systematically suppress their political representation and their language.
I think this can be covered with one source.
George Washington Univ., 2017: NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
Because discussions between an administration and a head of state is now considered binding geopolitical contracts?
Orinoco Tribune, 2022: Former German Chancellor Merkel Admits that Minsk Peace Agreements Were Part of Scheme for Ukraine to Buy Time to Prepare for War With Russia
" the 2014 Minsk agreement was an attempt to give time to Ukraine. It…used this time to become stronger as can be seen today. The Ukraine of 2014-2015 is not the modern Ukraine.”
Not a very intellectually honest interpretation from this “journalistic website”
- Al Mayadeen, 2023: Zelensky admits he never intended to implement Minsk agreements
I don’t see how not following through on the minsk agreement is really provoking a war when Russia has already broken The Budapest Memorandum.
Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine
"The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition to not invade Ukraine. Of course, we didn’t sign that.The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second-class membership. We rejected that.So, he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite.”
Demanding the impossible…that NATO retract to levels back in the 90s and to prevent an invasion that had already happened is a bit far from “NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine”
The NATO chief was just repeating putina claims, not making claims.
This is ridiculous and just a historical and dishonest.
And a lot of that expansion is done while Russia wanted to join NATO , or while they were on a permanent joint council with NATO. Up until recently NATO was just an organization used to give hand outs to the American military industrial complex.
It wasn’t until their invasion of Georgia and the resulting capital pull out from Moscow that Russia even complained about NATO.
Neither the US, Ukraine, nor Russia is even approaching socialism, so I don’t see how campism is relevant. What is relevant is imperialism vs. anti-imperialism.
I would say a socialist defending a violent imperialist nation invading a nation simply because they are at times geopolitically opposed to another violent imperialist nation is a form of campism.
in the context of imperialist liberation. Russia is still a capitalist state, though, so it’s a two stage strategy: first liberate colonized bourgeois states from colonizer states, and second revolution within those liberated bourgeois states.
And what evidence supports the idea that it will be easier to liberate one colonizer state from a second colonizer state located right next door? Seems you are perpetuating a lot of violence based on nothing.
Russia is an interesting case: it has already liberated itself from the post-Soviet “shock therapy” neocolonizers. This occurred during Putin’s administration, which is why he is especially hated by the US.
In what way have they liberated themselves from shock therapy? Their government is the result of shock therapy, where the vast majority of wealth is tied to an oligarchic control that’s even more hierarchal than just about any other nation in the world.
It’s trying to resolve the genocidal attacks on the people of the Donbas, and it’s trying to resolve the imperialist military expansion at its border.
Therea no actual evidence to support thwre was a “genocide” happening in donbos. They were just doing the same form of imperialism they didn’t in 08’ in Georgia, where they participated in ethnic cleansing.
The idea that Russia was provoked into invading their neighbors is ridiculous if you actually look at the history Russias relations with their neighbors in the late 00’s. It’s just imperialism…
Calling something by the wrong “name” is not exactly criticism.
So he’s just upset at the name, not the implied criticism behind it?
is a matter of observation.
Ahh, so because you said so. Got it
Quite a stretch of the word quote
Literally is a quote from Wikipedia, yes.
Well I would say that its precisely that the campism isnt strong when regardless of the fact that he is a capitalist we can reject only dogmatic criticism and ask for at least some rational basis
And what is that rational bias of defending his views other than Russia supposedly standing up to western imperialism by doing western styled imperialism?
You’re arguing with straw men. I’m not defending capitalism
I claimed you were defending a capitalist economist, which you are.
My original statement was to take anything he said with a grain of salt and that he pioneered what would one day be labeled as shock therapy.
Which people then claimed he didn’t do, based on his own claims.
I tend to not like any capitalist system as it will always decay into neoliberalism eventually.
Well yeah hes not a commie. He did not invent shock therapy, he considers this naming actually an insult.
Many people respond to criticism with negativity…
his advice was largely ignored both by soviets and amies.
Says who?
From your paste is also Ukraine missing.
The whole thing about quoting something is you don’t control what is left in or out, but yes Ukraine is a former Soviet state.
Why exactly is this supposed socialist sub defending the honor of a capitalist economist who participated in the parting out of the Soviet economy?
Is campism so strong that we are now cheerleading capitalists economists just because they support Russian nationalist?
I find it interesting that people here are falling over themselves to defend a capitalist economist. Is supporting Russian nationalism so important that we now defend a participant in the destruction of the Soviet system?
In 1989, Sachs advised Poland’s anticommunist Solidarity movement and the government of Prime Minister Tadeusz Mazowiecki. He wrote a comprehensive plan for the transition from central planning to a market economy which became incorporated into Poland’s reform program led by Finance Minister Leszek Balcerowicz. Sachs was the main architect of Poland’s debt reduction operation. Sachs and IMF economist David Lipton advised on the rapid conversion of all property and assets from public to private ownership. Closure of many uncompetitive factories ensued.[33] In Poland, Sachs was firmly on the side of rapid transition to capitalism. At first, he proposed American-style corporate structures, with professional managers answering to many shareholders and a large economic role for stock markets. That did not bode well with the Polish authorities, but he then proposed that large blocks of the shares of privatized companies be placed in the hands of private banks.[34] As a result, there were some economic shortages and inflation, but prices in Poland eventually stabilized.[35][independent source needed] The government of Poland awarded Sachs one of its highest honors in 1999, the Commander’s Cross of the Order of Merit.[36] He also received an honorary doctorate from the Kraków University of Economics.[21] Based on Poland’s success, his advice was sought first by Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev and by his successor, Russian President Boris Yeltsin, on the transition of the USSR/Russia to a market economy.[37]
Sachs’ methods for stabilizing economies became known as shock therapy and were similar to successful approaches used in Germany after the two world wars.[31] He faced criticism for his role after the Russian economy faced significant struggles after adopting the market-based shock therapy in the early 1990s.[38][39][40]
I would really take anything he says with a grain of salt…the dude is literally the person who invented shock therapy for post Soviet States. He’s not a reliable narrator and his only real goal is to spread Keynesian economics and convince authoritarian governments to privatize state assets.
Especially considering he’s claiming to be an anarchist…
When have you known an anarchist to capitulate to a country they describe as fascist?
don’t take the interest of the people living in Ukraine as the same as the Ukrainian state. Which sovereign? The people, who supposedly is “the sovereign” or the system of power ruling over a liberal nationalist state with very strong repression on (leftist) activists.
You don’t have to agree with the policy of a state to validate their right to self defense… I don’t agree with all of the policy of the Palestinian state, does that mean they deserve to be genocided, or shouldn’t be allowed to defend themselves?
Please. This should be beneath you.
What do you call a person echoing all the talking points of a fascist state? If someone in the 30s was defending lebensraum… I would call them a Nazi.
You’re talking about people and families, not about “Ukraine”.
Ahh, so how do you refer to the Palestinian genocide? Is this delineation from a state from the states people consistent in your ideology, or is it just performative?
I am an anarchist. I would like to separate the power structure from the containing entities (i.e.: I disagree with the common understanding of the purpose of the state).
Lol, you are an anarchist and yet you are defending a fascist state? How exactly is an anarchist failing to analyze the danger of such a hierarchical organization as modern Russia? Since when did anarchist capitulate to fascist? You are an embarrassment to anarchism and need to go read some Murray Bookchin.
The cis-men (and some trans women) were drafted. You’re talking about the power structure again. There may be a lot of voluntaries, but derserters are not tolerated
Again, you are critical of the side defending themselves against a fascist state. You do realize Russia is also drafting people to perpetuate the war? Anarchist have a long history of aligning themselves with governments they don’t agree with to fight fascist, you know because fascism is antithetical to anarchism. What is wrong with you?
A part of them literally are forced. I didn’t say anything about “en masse”.
Ahh, so because the draft exists that means the fascist army that is also drafting people deserve to take what they want? So you know nothing of critical/mutual aid?
Do you think that Russia is the only actor spreading propaganda? O.o It’s even working in Europe: All of Germany (and I think France?) is incredibly hyped for militarization!
Because…? Oh yeah, a fascist nation started the first war in Europe for the first time in decades and has mobilized into a war time economy. Just because anarchist do not believe in certain aspects of the state does not mean they can’t provide critical support in the face of fascism, just as they have done in the past.
probably won’t believe me, but I condemn any imperialism. Not just the one done by the “bad guys”.
But you are making a false equivocation between fascist and liberal imperialism… I’m not a fan of any imperialism either, but I also recognize fascism as the worse form. As an anarchist you too should be able to make the same criticism based on the competing governments hierarchical structure of organization.
If you aren’t recognizing and evaluating based on hierarchy than you aren’t really an anarchist, you’re just a libertarian.
Are you trying to explain to me that war between sovereigns is actually class war?
Lol, are you confusing the definition of sovereignty with sovereign…as in a monarchy? In a democracy sovereignty belongs to the citizens. If we are analyzing hierarchical structures between Russia and Ukraine, which of the citizens posses more sovereignty over their government? The fascist nation led being led unconstitutionaly by a dictator… Or the struggling democracy defending itself from a fascist invasion?
Would that be ok with you? / am not the one in the camp of “international law” and that borders may not be drawn by the sword.
Well, why would you have a problem with it? Your rebuttal with Ukraine is that you aren’t enough of a nationalist to believe in the abstract idea of a nation defending itself…so what would be your problem with NATO doing the same thing Russia is doing to Ukraine?
Seems your argument changes depending on who is the aggressor.
I’d protest, too. Because I don’t like either colonialism. I can condemn both Israel and Hamas, too.
Lol, what a fucking coward. You aren’t an anarchist, you are just a contrarian sitting on the sidelines too afraid to make a stand. You are just a nihilist.
You didn’t specify much on the interest why NATO would do such a thing, so I can’t properly get into your scenario.
Weren’t you the one who didn’t believe that Russia was the aggressor? Again you are a coward and a dishonest one at that.
You’re strawmanning me. I implied that NATO is an imperialist instrument. It’s an association of states to conduct war. Do you even have a proper definition of “Imperialism” that’s not on the level of a Star Wars fan podcast?
No, you are just lying again. You said they weren’t a defensive organization, which is a line straight from the Kremlin.
May I remind you that this discussion started with “no war but class war”. Who profited from these deals? Do you think there is such a thing as a “stable arms economy”?
May I remind you that I started this by condemning American imperialism… I didn’t claim that NATO wasn’t a form of imperialism, it’s just not a fascist one. Again you are falsely equivocating imperialism with fascism.
I think it’s a shame that you feel obliged to steep to these lows.
I’ve provided plenty of examples where your line of reasoning directly conflicts with your claims depending on who we are talking about. Also, claiming to be an anarchist and then tolerating fascism is the last straw. There isn’t a anarchist in modern history who wouldn’t create a common front to fight literal fascist.
If you really are being honest…which I highly doubt. You really need to read some more anarchist literature and maybe some history books. But again, you have too many conflicting ideas to be a reliable narrator.
Yeah, I honestly don’t know what these kinda people get out of wasting their days spreading this kinda shit. I guess misery loves company?
I mean if that was the entire point of the war wouldn’t it still be a strategic failure considering the invasion prompted Finland to join NATO?