Remember when unions and everyone were fighting against automation. What are you shocked at here?

The North American right and left both have become extreme Luddites over the past decade. What result did we expect? Lots of people said decades ago that we’d be left in the dust.

AI is the next field that we’re doing the same thing on. The general population keeps getting influenced to hobble itself on new innovations and then we’re shocked we’re getting surpassed as these innovations continue to develop in other countries?

Why be so cowardly.

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You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. I’m not denying that there’s a real reality. I’m saying we don’t have direct access to it. That’s not cognitive dissonance, that’s just basic philosophy. Kant, Husserl, even modern physics all recognize that we only ever experience the world filtered through perception and cognition. There’s the thing itself, and then there’s what our brains can make sense of. That’s not contradictory. It’s literally the human condition.

Empirical data doesn’t magically escape that filter either. Observation and measurement are still mediated by human perception, interpretation, and context. Science works because we build systems to reduce bias, not because we somehow step outside of subjectivity. It’s intersubjective, not absolute.

And I never said you have to believe in relativism to understand lying or manipulation. What I am saying is that the right understands the power of framing and narrative, and the left often doesn’t. They treat “truth” as something fixed and self-evident, when in practice it’s always being shaped, reframed, and fought over. That’s not the same as saying “nothing is true.” It’s saying that truth has to be communicated and maintained, not just assumed.

The moral and ethical part is a separate issue. You can still have values, compassion, and principles while acknowledging that your version of truth is a construct. Empathy doesn’t require metaphysical certainty. It just requires agreeing that suffering matters.

And as for the right thriving on chaos, sure, but that doesn’t mean the left can’t learn from how they weaponize language and perception. Understanding those methods doesn’t make you immoral. It makes you strategic. There’s a difference between manipulation and persuasion. The right bends narratives to serve their goals; the left tends to just call them out, assuming reason will win on its own. It doesn’t.

So yeah, the point isn’t to become dishonest. It’s to stop being naïve about how people actually process information and form beliefs. Reality might be objective, but politics runs on perception.

I’m saying that there are two types of truths. One is what is reality but that we are forced to view it through our sense and mind and consciousness which can never actually grasp the real reality. That filter is what makes it a subjective truth. This is to my point that the right understand this and succeeded in a lot of areas the left don’t because of this. The left are very rigid and seen to fall on their own truth. I see it in arguments and online. They don’t mold things or play around with events the same way the right does. I think they don’t because of their relationship to what they see as true or not.

The way the right have reframed arguments about trans, racism, Jeffery Epstein, immigration, government needs to be better understood by the right. Not just called out but instead adapted.

Press F didn’t exist?

What the hell 😆

What is wrong with the left that this wasn’t plastered everywhere during the Tyler - Charlie debate?

I feel like we’re slower than shit

And how do you know that other observer is not a p zombie or part of the hallucination.

All this to say that there is even though we want to deal with Truths it isn’t something we can deal with. We can only deal with our truths which is subjective, not objective. Bringing this all back. It’s what the right are amazing at. They work and put in effort to craft their truth and make others aware of it. The left fail because they believe their truth is going to spread on its own merits.

No my point is that truth no matter what will always be something that can be twisted. There is no hard truth but leftist act like there is. The right don’t bother. They know what they want and use it to twist that left into knots. Need to play that game back. Need to reject these morals and ethics that are used like excuses.

But you’re still back to the problem of knowing if they exist or are just p-zombies

But that doesn’t prove that those really exist. I can dream/Imagine/hallucinate/simulate that those things exist and that they work together. It’s like trying to nail down the question of who you are. Are you some observer inside your brain or are you something more holistic. There are absolutely things in my body I don’t control. It acts on its own. I observe and at times act against my own desires, needs and wants fairly often. So who am I if I don’t have full control of me.

All this to say while we argue this, this Republicans innately understand the truth is not something that is easily understood. They expertly have used it to create the current world while people on the left scratch their balls wondering what’s wrong with the world. What’s wrong is that the left have not adapted in 60 years. They’ve actually devolved. They are miserable and toxic. They reject any advances in technology. There actively alternate themselves from tools and resource and social groups who do not meet their ever changing and growing demands for moral and ethical superiority. The left have fallen behind and they use excuses about ethics and morality as the reason they’re failing instead of taking ownership for being a regressive group with almost nothing to offer anyone in today’s world.

Right which is my point. But why does the left fall on their own sword. They have all the ability. If we truly believe the left have more people, that Gerry mandering is needed because most people lean left. Then it should be a no brainer than the left needs to activate a fire under each other to overwhelm spaces. But we do the opposite. We retreat. The only conclusions I can think of when I read between the lines is that we were targeted by right wing astro turfing as much as the right was. Or we’re just not smart people as a whole and it’s actually maybe a good thing we’re being backed into our corners

It doesn’t fail. How do you determine that? You just know cause it is? You have no argument here to say what you’re experiencing is not just some grand delusion or dream. Unless you know something I don’t. So what is it?

Here is how I know you can’t. Your answer will be a non answer, you’ll either walk away from this pretending you’re too good for this argument or you’ll say, it is because… You know like you can experience it. I already said the brain is capable of delusion and dreams and we know simulation theory isn’t new. So do you have some way to determine if it isn’t one of those things?

But guarantee you can’t provide a half decent honest argument. It’ll be some one liner or just hyperbole

And you are not able to determine if the world is a delusion or some truth. There’s not an argument. It is facts. You do not know if the sun actually exists anymore than you can prove we’re not a hallucinating brain in a jar floating in space. You have no argument here. You can deny it. But that won’t change this. Truth exist. We don’t deal with Truths we deal with truths.

What matters is results. You’re not a good person if you allow bad people to win because you have a twisted moral or ethical stance that just doesn’t matter. Perception is king. The average right winger knows this. The left are out classed. There’s a real possibility they’ll never catch up and this current situation will be our future but worse

Is it? Can you show me that the AI headlines and hype on Lemmy is different from NY Post website’s approach to immigrants?

Same coin different faces. If you told a republican that they bought into anti immigration astro turfing what would that tell you?

Depends if you’re in their labor camp or not. There’s a time and place for everything. Why be concerned about the environment if creates an environment where the people who will outpace you will destroy it anyways. You’re not saving anything by letting them seize power

It’s very literally the argument. Again your truth and mine don’t align on that which is more proof

Yes. Think how it works. Humans, all of us have a very obvious fault in our system if you think about it for a minute. We are social animals. That’s our super power and our downfall. I can 100% manipulate and convince you something is real through repetition. Unless you’re an outlier like maybe you are on the spectrum and have difficulty with social norms. But the average person will change when the see a message repeated over and over a long period of time.

This is a pipeline from rich special interests -> think tanks -> political consultants -> marketing groups -> bot farms -> Internet users -> semi_hemi_demigid co-workers

The bot farms push ideas like “leftist radicals did X” and they hammer the message on all platforms. Hell go onto the Whitehouse website to see this message plastered everywhere. It doesn’t matter if you think it’s a dumb a message. It’ll propagate regardless. The only thing that matters is numbers. Think about this message cause I know we all seen it over and over again “I won’t wrestle with pigs”. We were all convinced to be so annoyed we deleted all our digital accounts and gave the right wing groups red carpet access to the eyes and ears of the causal voting population.

How do you know. If I tell you it doesn’t exist how do you prove it. You can say we see it. And I can tell show you illusions or examples of how we hallucinate or theories and simulations. There is a Truth no doubt. But we deal with truths always.