As a user, you should be upset that a private company is controlling how you are allowed to use your device that you paid for with your money.
This would be like if Microsoft decided you could only run Microsoft-approved code on a computer you purchased, in some cases with a locked bootloader so you can’t even change your OS.
Also, Google is (imho) already operating unethically when it comes to the app store (See Google v. Epic). I don’t care about Fortnite, but Google really shouldn’t be able to take a cut of random services just because it’s running on Android.
Doesn’t upset me, why? Because it’s not about controlling what app I install, but who wrote the app I might install. If my understanding is not correct of this change , I’m happy to be shown I’m wrong.
I think that other guy’s comment about the ICE tracker app really highlights the most important problem: If only signed apps can run, governments can pressure companies to remove access to certain apps. Even if Google allowed posting the app, the author would have to de-anonymize himself, and Google would have to comply with the law if they were subpoenaed. They would definitely give up the author’s name. It is an issue of freedom, freedom of speech, freedom to do with your device what you choose to do with it. You might not have a use for it (right now) but it’s not necessarily something you’d want to give up.
And, honestly, I would personally be affected by this, eventually. I use an app called NewPipe to watch youtube. It already isn’t available on the app store (violates google’s ToS), and I doubt they’d let people install this even if the author properly identified themselves, because I use it to avoid watching adds and to be able to “subscribe” to channels without an account. I could just borrow my husband’s premium subscription, I guess, but I really only use NewPipe to watch certain things, and it lacks the algorithmically driven feed (which I am actively avoiding, Google tends to suggest things that make you angry for clicks).
I don’t know about America or to be honest at all what ICE tracker does, but if I was to assume that it somehow tracks government agents where they go, there might be laws against that.
I don’t want to drag this conversation into American politics, but I will say ICE has been doing things against USA law. Things are not great here. Even noncitizens have rights that need to be respected, and ICE is failing to do that. They have also arrested lawful residents, citizens too, in their sweeps.
The ICE tracker app is a protest app/ direct action sort of thing, not a tool for criminality. Surely you can see the value of being able to use technology to resist a tyrannical government?
By the way, do you want the USA government to potentially control which software can be installed on your phone? Google is an American company. USA courts could decide (international company) is violating (American IP law or something else) and instruct Google to disallow their app from being installed entirely.
They can pull apps off the app store now, and they do that, but currently you can still side load stuff.
If the ICE app is breaking the law, and ICE itself is breaking the law, two wrongs don’t make 1 right. There are legal ways to protest.
Like I said, earlier if you aren’t breaking the law then if someone asks you to ID yourself
, what’s your fear? Loss of privacy?
You can’t use privacy to hide the act of breaking a law.
Unless you’re a developer it doesn’t affect you anyway, you can still sideload apps. You just can’t use a public highway like the internet to break the law and expect nothing to happen. I know it’s not what any of you want to hear.
Tbh I’m not even sure the app is breaking any laws at all. Reporting on the presence of law enforcement is (not always but sometimes) protected speech here. I don’t use the app, and I haven’t heard that they are trying to arrest anyone in regards to it.
Honestly though… Have you thought through everything you’re saying? Sheltering Jewish people during the holocaust was illegal in Germany.
I’m not a lawyer , but common sense dictates if you are going to make an app that’s possibly illegal, you won’t do it unless you are satisfied that it is legal. As far as comparing the sheltering of Jews illegally who were facing extermination and people who entered a country illegally is like saying I broke all the speed limit rules to attend an exam because I saw a person doing the same for a valid emergency. I’m not saying what Trump is doing is right at all, it’s reprehensible, but don’t try to equate it with the attempt to delete Jews from existence. It’s absolutely fucking ridiculous .
Just think of it: you are the author of the ICE tracker app. You want to release the app as anonymously as possible, right? Well, not with this move in place. You will need to upload your govt. Id to their website. If the pigs come knocking, you bet your ass GOOG will gladly hand it over to them and off you go to Florida.
That’s interesting, where did you grow up? I grew up believing everybody had the right to privacy. And to not provide your identity to strangers on the internet
It’s like gay marriage. If you don’t want to do it, you don’t have to. But don’t support restricting the freedom of others because it won’t effect you
I grew up in Czechoslovakia and Australia, more Australia really. There might be a genuine reason why google is doing it or not. Most things require an identity these days. You cant drive without an identity , you can’t purchase alcohol without an one, of open a bank account. Where does your privacy feeling stand there I suppose you don’t have any of that? I’m actually amazed with so much fraud on the internet governments don’t require an ID to open a browser on your PC. Isn’t internet like a network of highways really ?
You need an ID for those activities because it is required by law. Apples and oranges. Your argument is a logical fallacy of false equivalency.
A government dictating what you can and cannot do by law is a completely different thing than some random company telling you what you can and can’t do with a device you own.
And again, if you’re uncomfortable with that - then you still have the option of only downloading apps via the play store where identities are already verified.
So again, it’s the gay marriage argument - do you support the freedom of others to do something you may not want to do? Or would you rather restrict others freedom when it doesn’t effect you? If it’s the latter, then I think you’re an objectively bad person.
Owning device is not the same as owning the right to the software that runs on it. Google is well within their rights to say if you want to code on android, show us your ID, it’s not your ethical right to do as you wish with someone else’s software. There may or may not be a valid reason (ie. Too many suspicious apps that have no ownership). You need a license to drive on a public road owned by government , you need a license to code on Google’s Android . I can open up a restaurant that serves no alcohol and request people for ID when they walk in because it’s my right. No law that says you show me your ID but there’s also no law that says I have to let you in.
I want privacy and freedom. You want Google to dictate what apps you can use even though it doesn’t effect you.
You don’t give a shit about people who rely on apps that aren’t from the play store. You cant seem to understand why it’s bad because it won’t effect you. It’s selfish
You’ve put a whole lot of words in my mouth I didn’t say. I just don’t see it “necessary” as a bad thing, you can still install apps via side loading, but now you can feel comfortable that if you install an app that steals all your passwords you can actually point a finger at who did it and hold them to account. Not that I wish that on anyone.
As a user I don’t have a problem with this , as long it’s used ethically. The question is if Google can act ethically.
As a user, you should be upset that a private company is controlling how you are allowed to use your device that you paid for with your money.
This would be like if Microsoft decided you could only run Microsoft-approved code on a computer you purchased, in some cases with a locked bootloader so you can’t even change your OS.
Also, Google is (imho) already operating unethically when it comes to the app store (See Google v. Epic). I don’t care about Fortnite, but Google really shouldn’t be able to take a cut of random services just because it’s running on Android.
Doesn’t upset me, why? Because it’s not about controlling what app I install, but who wrote the app I might install. If my understanding is not correct of this change , I’m happy to be shown I’m wrong.
I think that other guy’s comment about the ICE tracker app really highlights the most important problem: If only signed apps can run, governments can pressure companies to remove access to certain apps. Even if Google allowed posting the app, the author would have to de-anonymize himself, and Google would have to comply with the law if they were subpoenaed. They would definitely give up the author’s name. It is an issue of freedom, freedom of speech, freedom to do with your device what you choose to do with it. You might not have a use for it (right now) but it’s not necessarily something you’d want to give up.
And, honestly, I would personally be affected by this, eventually. I use an app called NewPipe to watch youtube. It already isn’t available on the app store (violates google’s ToS), and I doubt they’d let people install this even if the author properly identified themselves, because I use it to avoid watching adds and to be able to “subscribe” to channels without an account. I could just borrow my husband’s premium subscription, I guess, but I really only use NewPipe to watch certain things, and it lacks the algorithmically driven feed (which I am actively avoiding, Google tends to suggest things that make you angry for clicks).
I don’t know about America or to be honest at all what ICE tracker does, but if I was to assume that it somehow tracks government agents where they go, there might be laws against that.
I don’t want to drag this conversation into American politics, but I will say ICE has been doing things against USA law. Things are not great here. Even noncitizens have rights that need to be respected, and ICE is failing to do that. They have also arrested lawful residents, citizens too, in their sweeps.
The ICE tracker app is a protest app/ direct action sort of thing, not a tool for criminality. Surely you can see the value of being able to use technology to resist a tyrannical government?
By the way, do you want the USA government to potentially control which software can be installed on your phone? Google is an American company. USA courts could decide (international company) is violating (American IP law or something else) and instruct Google to disallow their app from being installed entirely.
They can pull apps off the app store now, and they do that, but currently you can still side load stuff.
If the ICE app is breaking the law, and ICE itself is breaking the law, two wrongs don’t make 1 right. There are legal ways to protest.
Like I said, earlier if you aren’t breaking the law then if someone asks you to ID yourself , what’s your fear? Loss of privacy?
You can’t use privacy to hide the act of breaking a law.
Unless you’re a developer it doesn’t affect you anyway, you can still sideload apps. You just can’t use a public highway like the internet to break the law and expect nothing to happen. I know it’s not what any of you want to hear.
Tbh I’m not even sure the app is breaking any laws at all. Reporting on the presence of law enforcement is (not always but sometimes) protected speech here. I don’t use the app, and I haven’t heard that they are trying to arrest anyone in regards to it.
Honestly though… Have you thought through everything you’re saying? Sheltering Jewish people during the holocaust was illegal in Germany.
Anyway, have a nice day, those are my thoughts.
I’m not a lawyer , but common sense dictates if you are going to make an app that’s possibly illegal, you won’t do it unless you are satisfied that it is legal. As far as comparing the sheltering of Jews illegally who were facing extermination and people who entered a country illegally is like saying I broke all the speed limit rules to attend an exam because I saw a person doing the same for a valid emergency. I’m not saying what Trump is doing is right at all, it’s reprehensible, but don’t try to equate it with the attempt to delete Jews from existence. It’s absolutely fucking ridiculous .
Just think of it: you are the author of the ICE tracker app. You want to release the app as anonymously as possible, right? Well, not with this move in place. You will need to upload your govt. Id to their website. If the pigs come knocking, you bet your ass GOOG will gladly hand it over to them and off you go to Florida.
Google removed their motto “don’t be evil”. I think that alone will answer your question.
You don’t have a problem with Google dictating what you can and cannot do on your own phone? Seriously?
What’s the benefit of that?
I guess I was brought up believing that if you do nothing wrong, theres no point hiding your identity.
I’m fine knowing the person who wrote the code of the app that I am about to install has had courage to identify themselves.
That’s interesting, where did you grow up? I grew up believing everybody had the right to privacy. And to not provide your identity to strangers on the internet
It’s like gay marriage. If you don’t want to do it, you don’t have to. But don’t support restricting the freedom of others because it won’t effect you
I grew up in Czechoslovakia and Australia, more Australia really. There might be a genuine reason why google is doing it or not. Most things require an identity these days. You cant drive without an identity , you can’t purchase alcohol without an one, of open a bank account. Where does your privacy feeling stand there I suppose you don’t have any of that? I’m actually amazed with so much fraud on the internet governments don’t require an ID to open a browser on your PC. Isn’t internet like a network of highways really ?
You need an ID for those activities because it is required by law. Apples and oranges. Your argument is a logical fallacy of false equivalency.
A government dictating what you can and cannot do by law is a completely different thing than some random company telling you what you can and can’t do with a device you own.
And again, if you’re uncomfortable with that - then you still have the option of only downloading apps via the play store where identities are already verified.
So again, it’s the gay marriage argument - do you support the freedom of others to do something you may not want to do? Or would you rather restrict others freedom when it doesn’t effect you? If it’s the latter, then I think you’re an objectively bad person.
Owning device is not the same as owning the right to the software that runs on it. Google is well within their rights to say if you want to code on android, show us your ID, it’s not your ethical right to do as you wish with someone else’s software. There may or may not be a valid reason (ie. Too many suspicious apps that have no ownership). You need a license to drive on a public road owned by government , you need a license to code on Google’s Android . I can open up a restaurant that serves no alcohol and request people for ID when they walk in because it’s my right. No law that says you show me your ID but there’s also no law that says I have to let you in.
We’re just not gonna see eye to eye on this.
I want privacy and freedom. You want Google to dictate what apps you can use even though it doesn’t effect you.
You don’t give a shit about people who rely on apps that aren’t from the play store. You cant seem to understand why it’s bad because it won’t effect you. It’s selfish
You’ve put a whole lot of words in my mouth I didn’t say. I just don’t see it “necessary” as a bad thing, you can still install apps via side loading, but now you can feel comfortable that if you install an app that steals all your passwords you can actually point a finger at who did it and hold them to account. Not that I wish that on anyone.
“I don’t mind living under a dictatorship as long as it’s just the people I don’t care about getting murdered.”