• uuldika@lemmy.ml
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    20 hours ago

    💯%. the US was heavily isolationist at the start of WWII, and pretty anti-Semitic. for example, the St. Louis, a boat full of Jewish refugees, was turned away from the US and Canada in 1939 - and turned back to Europe, with many Jews eventually imprisoned and murdered by the Nazis. there were also the blackshirts in the UK, who were pro-Nazi, and PM Chamberlain had a peace treaty drawn up with Hitler. and the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact with the Soviets, of course.

    so if the Nazis had been content to murder only German, Austrian and Czech Jews, they would have gotten away with it.

    on the other hand, Nazi ideology (e.g. “lebensraum” and their belief in the destiny of the Aryan race to conquer the “inferior” races) drove them to war, to invade Poland and to break their pact with the Soviets. and they also spent tons of resources on the Holocaust, at the expense of their military.

    so basically yeah, isolationist Nazis would have totally survived, but otoh Nazis aren’t isolationists.

    • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      so basically yeah, isolationist Nazis would have totally survived,

      Everything you said was on point but this part I feel is incorrect. Nazi Germany was on the brink of bankruptcy by 1939 because of government overspending, mainly due to rearmament. Hitler felt he had to absolutely invade other countries to pillage the resources and maintain the German economy. People tend to give too much credit to the Nazis but the regime would have totally collapsed on its own if it weren’t for the war delaying the inevitable.

      Hitler and the Nazis aren’t different to any other dictatorships in post-war third world countries. They are bunch of fantasist buffoons. The Nazis only got lucky they went so far because they inherited strong institutions to leech off of, particularly the legacy of the Prussian military-- the army with a state.

    • N3rd@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      20 hours ago

      ngl i was kinda hoping you’d say my statement is bull and germany wouldve been wiped out anyways regardless of starting a war lol (: i hate this timeline ;-;

      • uuldika@lemmy.ml
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        20 hours ago

        I’m sorry 🫂 there’s not always a happy ending. the genocide of Native Americans, for example.

        take care of yourself, and take care of your trans and migrant siblings. that’s all we can really do, but maybe it’s enough. ❤️

        • SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org
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          19 hours ago

          Just saying, they will fall apart without dear leader. Nobody else in his camp can rile up the people like he does. And half of his camp still hates him, but has fallen in line. But time is of the essence here. The longer you wait the worse it will get. If you wait for old age to do the job, the damage done might be too great.

          • Taldan@lemmy.world
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            16 hours ago

            Nobody else in his camp can rile up the people like he does.

            That’s what they said about Kim Il Sung. Few thought Kim Jong Il would be able to take his place. Now we’re on our 3rd generation. I think there’s enough hate whipped up, they’ll follow anyone that lets them take it out on the vulnerable

    • toppy@lemy.lol
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      19 hours ago

      True. If germany wouldn’t have started the war or would engage in limited warfare then nazi germany would have existed till now. Europe is lucky in the sense that USA and europe are separated by a big ocean. Otherwise USA politics would have affected europe. Also USA can remain isolated for a long time. And this makes it dangerous for people living there. Because europe and other countries cannot force USA to change its internal rules or cannot advise USA about its internal affairs.

      • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
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        12 hours ago

        If germany wouldn’t have started the war or would engage in limited warfare then nazi germany would have existed till now.

        They definitely won’t survive until now. Little known fact that most people are unaware of post-war is that Nazi Germany was on brink of another economic collapse in 1939 because of excessive government spending. The pillage of resources from their conquered territories gave them small injection of wealth to keep themselves going for a while. Even if Nazi Germany went fully isolationist and engaged in limited war (which I think is even impossible), eventually their poor policies will cause their own demise.

        • tamman2000@lemmy.world
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          10 hours ago

          I’m not saying you’re wrong, because I don’t know enough details about their economy at that time, but people have been saying that about the US economy for decades and it hasn’t happened yet (not that I think it wouldn’t under Trump, because he’s really going nuts on it, but…).

          Do you have anything you can point to that makes the case that the situation was so precarious that collapse was inevitable, or just that they were precarious (as the US has been since GWB at least)?