Community gardens still divide the space into individual plots. If I grow a bunch of jalapeño peppers on my plot then it’s not cool if you just come along and harvest them all.
No, it doesn’t … You have a central authority that makes sure that doesn’t happen or the community makes sure that doesn’t happen like how hippies grow their own food
The Soviet Union and Maoist China both had central authorities and millions of people starved to death because of collectivization. Do you think they just weren’t trying hard enough?
There were literally famines before Stalin and Mao. And both places were being invaded by other countries, and had their own farmers sabotage the crops to make people raise up against the government. Also, once that was taken care of, nobody ever died of a famine even under Stalin or Mao and let alone after them.
Lets talk about how Britain purposefully created a famine that killed millions of Irish and Indians, shall we? And how European powers take away food security from Africa, and millions starve to death every year under capitalism.
The Holodomor happened years before the second world war started, The Great Leap Forward was over a decade after it had ended. Both of these were man-made famines inflicted during peacetime by communist governments upon their own people. Millions of people do not starve every year under capitalism, that’s just ridiculous.
Why would we talk about how empires treat their conquered subjects? That has nothing to do with capitalism and communism, you’re just trying to change the subject. I’m defending empires, war and conquest are terrible no matter who’s doing it.
Ignorance and bad faith? Every accusation is a confession.
Still ignorant and bad faith arguments that lacks any historical nuance
The Holodomor happened years before the second world war started
The USSR was being under constant invasions by the world powers that didn’t want to allow a socialist state to exist. Add to that, that the kulaks sabotaged their own crops to make people revolt and overthrow the socialist government.
The Great Leap Forward was over a decade after it had ended.
China was a poor agrarian country which infrastructure was destroyed by Japan. It constantly had famines that killed people even before that. Mao just couldn’t fix the issues that caused famine fast enough for another one not to repeat.
Literally millions of people starve in Africa due to not having enough money to eat, and due to the privatization of food and fields. That is capitalism. It is insane that you would say otherwise. And even in America lots of people are food insecure. And a capitalist nation Israel has killed like 100k people and a capitalist nation Germany killed 50 Million people.
Colonization is part of capitalism. Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism and so is fascism
When was the Soviet Union invaded? Other than the Nazi betrayal of the plan to divide Europe between them and the Soviets, which happened years after the end of the Holodomor, the USSR was the one on the offensive during this period, for example in Afghanistan, China, Finland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia.
Gosh, I wonder why someone whose only crime was being a bit more successful than the average peasant might have been angry about seeing their friends and family murdered, having their livelihood taken away, or watching some aparatchik experiment on their society with some economic system he’s only ever read about. Yes, that one’s a real mystery to me.
China was indeed quite backwards and devastated by the Japanese invasion and the civil war, but somehow severe famine didn’t occur until after the communist victory and a decade of reconstruction. It was caused by Mao’s Great Leap Forward, imposed from above by people who had clearly read extensively about political philosophy and never agriculture.
Subsistence farming in sub-saharan Africa has very little to do with capitalism. Where are the capitalists? There is essentially no capital! Feudal warlordism is a bad system, but trying to use it to criticize something completely different is nonsense. The food situation in America could hardly be more different, even during severe recessions essentially nobody starves, and in fact one of the biggest public health challenges they’re facing is that even relatively poor people have access to so much cheap, appetizing, calorie-dense food that without taking steps to avoid it they become severely obese.
Countries fight wars of conquest independent of their economic system, essentially any country strong enough to impose their will on others will almost certainly do so sooner or later, as we’ve seen throughout all of human history under a variety of economic and political systems. Trying to somehow tie the crimes of Israel and and Nazi Germany to their economic system while ignoring all other factors shows how weak your argument is - you are unable to criticize capitalism directly so you instead take a stab at guilt by association. Perhaps the problem is having too much power concentrated in the hands of leaders? Nope, it’s definitely because businesses are privately owned. Surely Palestinian Nationalists and Zionists would get along if only there were bread lines.
Ignorance is when your opponent reads history, bad faith is when he refuses to accept your twisted interpretation of it. Thank you for enlightening me. You would have to be willfully blind to still believe Marxism offers real solutions and that actual existing communism is preferable to capitalist democracy, even with its many shortcomings, after having witnessed the events of the 20th century.
Because community gardens always get destroyed …
Community gardens still divide the space into individual plots. If I grow a bunch of jalapeño peppers on my plot then it’s not cool if you just come along and harvest them all.
A hobby operated by volunteers isn’t load-bearing. Forced collectivization invariably leads to disaster.
No, it doesn’t … You have a central authority that makes sure that doesn’t happen or the community makes sure that doesn’t happen like how hippies grow their own food
The Soviet Union and Maoist China both had central authorities and millions of people starved to death because of collectivization. Do you think they just weren’t trying hard enough?
This is such a bad faith and ignorant argument.
There were literally famines before Stalin and Mao. And both places were being invaded by other countries, and had their own farmers sabotage the crops to make people raise up against the government. Also, once that was taken care of, nobody ever died of a famine even under Stalin or Mao and let alone after them.
Lets talk about how Britain purposefully created a famine that killed millions of Irish and Indians, shall we? And how European powers take away food security from Africa, and millions starve to death every year under capitalism.
The Holodomor happened years before the second world war started, The Great Leap Forward was over a decade after it had ended. Both of these were man-made famines inflicted during peacetime by communist governments upon their own people. Millions of people do not starve every year under capitalism, that’s just ridiculous.
Why would we talk about how empires treat their conquered subjects? That has nothing to do with capitalism and communism, you’re just trying to change the subject. I’m defending empires, war and conquest are terrible no matter who’s doing it.
Ignorance and bad faith? Every accusation is a confession.
Still ignorant and bad faith arguments that lacks any historical nuance
The USSR was being under constant invasions by the world powers that didn’t want to allow a socialist state to exist. Add to that, that the kulaks sabotaged their own crops to make people revolt and overthrow the socialist government.
China was a poor agrarian country which infrastructure was destroyed by Japan. It constantly had famines that killed people even before that. Mao just couldn’t fix the issues that caused famine fast enough for another one not to repeat.
Literally millions of people starve in Africa due to not having enough money to eat, and due to the privatization of food and fields. That is capitalism. It is insane that you would say otherwise. And even in America lots of people are food insecure. And a capitalist nation Israel has killed like 100k people and a capitalist nation Germany killed 50 Million people.
Colonization is part of capitalism. Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism and so is fascism
Begone capitalist bootlicker
When was the Soviet Union invaded? Other than the Nazi betrayal of the plan to divide Europe between them and the Soviets, which happened years after the end of the Holodomor, the USSR was the one on the offensive during this period, for example in Afghanistan, China, Finland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia.
Gosh, I wonder why someone whose only crime was being a bit more successful than the average peasant might have been angry about seeing their friends and family murdered, having their livelihood taken away, or watching some aparatchik experiment on their society with some economic system he’s only ever read about. Yes, that one’s a real mystery to me.
China was indeed quite backwards and devastated by the Japanese invasion and the civil war, but somehow severe famine didn’t occur until after the communist victory and a decade of reconstruction. It was caused by Mao’s Great Leap Forward, imposed from above by people who had clearly read extensively about political philosophy and never agriculture.
Subsistence farming in sub-saharan Africa has very little to do with capitalism. Where are the capitalists? There is essentially no capital! Feudal warlordism is a bad system, but trying to use it to criticize something completely different is nonsense. The food situation in America could hardly be more different, even during severe recessions essentially nobody starves, and in fact one of the biggest public health challenges they’re facing is that even relatively poor people have access to so much cheap, appetizing, calorie-dense food that without taking steps to avoid it they become severely obese.
Countries fight wars of conquest independent of their economic system, essentially any country strong enough to impose their will on others will almost certainly do so sooner or later, as we’ve seen throughout all of human history under a variety of economic and political systems. Trying to somehow tie the crimes of Israel and and Nazi Germany to their economic system while ignoring all other factors shows how weak your argument is - you are unable to criticize capitalism directly so you instead take a stab at guilt by association. Perhaps the problem is having too much power concentrated in the hands of leaders? Nope, it’s definitely because businesses are privately owned. Surely Palestinian Nationalists and Zionists would get along if only there were bread lines.
Ignorance is when your opponent reads history, bad faith is when he refuses to accept your twisted interpretation of it. Thank you for enlightening me. You would have to be willfully blind to still believe Marxism offers real solutions and that actual existing communism is preferable to capitalist democracy, even with its many shortcomings, after having witnessed the events of the 20th century.